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Attacked! by Anxiety!

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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby bishopdante on Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:35 pm

Another *very* interesting area to look at is the new understanding that neuroscientists are uncovering about mast cells and inflammation, those are implicated in *all sorts* of over-stimulation and excessive stress scenarios, and their chronic over-activation or atrophy can also be thought of as similar to asthma or eczema.

Mast cells are found all over the body as well as the brain.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby jimmy spako on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:02 am

Nobody needs your long-winded meta-analysis of shit they already know.
"The truth is that these events can be quite dangerous"...
"Stress is not good for a person"...
No shit.

Don't gum up threads meant to facilitate people sharing their direct experience with one another for the purpose of actually helping one another. Anecdotes (and not mindwank) or get the fuck out. Thank you!
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby Janeway on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 am

hey thats a treasure for me youre one man trashin. it was a jumping point that lead into good neurological research so, lets not be afraid of expounding, its called scroll past.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby bishopdante on Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:01 pm

jimmy spako wrote:Anecdotes (and not mindwank) or get the fuck out.


Just did 3 months up to my neck in the Grenfell fire fallout. That's my hometown & local area, and it was all hands on deck.

The government-run emergency relief was... virtually nonexistant. So lacking that within a week the local council were formally relieved of duty and other London boroughs had to form an impromptu committee called "gold command" to take over operation of the emergency services. Help was that absent / lackadaisical. The local council attempted to deny and sweep the thing under the carpet, then the chairman resigned. Shady. The "gold command" didn't do much of a better job. Escaped survivors in their underpants with no phones whisked off and scattered to remote and cheap hotel rooms all over London, hidden away and split up, and having to journey back to "the zone" to try to figure out what the hell is going on, and pick up various donated supplies.

The local residents had to scramble and try to organise what they could, and it was chaos on loop. Well-meaning traumatised chaos for the most part, but chaos.

A week later nobody knew how many lived or died. Central Government and local government keeping schtum. Theresa May tried to visit but had to be whisked off by security when it looked like it'd turn violent.

Really shocking on a lot of levels, and the fuckeries of the ultra-corrupt Tory council round here dates back to the '70s. Ladbroke Grove is getting weird, past 15 years the wealth gap has been getting bizarre.

Latest news announced yesterday is that 2/3 of the local police stations will be sold off?!

Not overly keen on sharing too much specific about exactly what I've been doing with various organisations and the Grenfell disaster, thanks. Nor would it be ethical, or legally advisable.

Knowing what I do about cybersurveillance etc, that under David Cameron Theresa May was overseeing the British mass-surveillance spying program of Snowden leak fame, and is now prime minister, and that every single emergency service now has access to ISP logs without a warrant...

In all honesty my state is currently a bit too freaked at the moment to be able to do accurate memory recall... meetings meetings demonstrations marches committees meetings... all chaos and confusion and heavy, heavy emotion, in-fighting and freak-outs galore. A week or two ago after stepping back from active duty I felt actually brain dead... nor am I in a position to make sense or of how psychologically toxic the situation has been.

Seeing freaked out people at each others' throats, meltdowns, people with axes to grind, hidden agendas, all sorts of shady wolves in sheep's garb, corporate charities absconding with the majority of the financial donations... and bearing in mind that a lot of the people in that building were refugees from various war zones, lots of them had various pre-existing mental health and/or drug problems, before being involved in this surreal disaster.

Every day I see this vertical blackened tomb stone looming as a grim reminder, visible for miles. A 220ft tall tomb. "How could that happen in the center of London in the 21st century?!". It shouldn't. We have known how to build high rise structires which doesn't totally self-immolate for quite some time.

Polyethylene burns with a similar combustion profile to candle wax. It's a smokeless fuel. As for polyisocyanurate insulation foam... that emits hydrogen cyanide. Very toxic black smoke. As for laying an exposed gas main down the only remaining stairwell... and bricking up the fire escapes to "prevent loitering"... death trap is the only way to describe it.

A mother trapped inside threw her four year old kid out of a 10th floor window. Amazingly a man caught it, like a rugby ball. The mum didn't make it out. Talk about early childhood trauma... what will become of that kid? Three kids survived by being thrown out of windows. Plenty died, as the missing posters stuck round the neighbourhood bear testament.

The whole thing, up front and in person, it's got so many layers that there isn't enough space in your mind to wrap your head round it. It overwhelms, and people freak out. I could not repeat some of the stuff I have witnessed.

As somebody with some architectural design and fire safety skills it's deadly disturbing, and very shocking, but not unthinkable. You name it, if it's a public service it's becoming *very* dangerous under the austeritories, con-dem-nation. Miser management and the banking bean counter aesthetic. It's deliberate. Class warfare. It's also short sighted - a positive future requires proper investment (and of course, a positive future for everybody hasn't been popular with elitists who are obsessed with hereditary privilege and the benefits of inequality).

Particularly the NHS is increasingly overloaded and under-resourced, especially the mental health bits. Past day or two it has been revealed that many NHS trusts are now meeting their 'performance targets' 0% of the time. Most of the staff are under medically dangerous levels of stress, you can see it.

So, um, pardon me for skirting round the deposition of direct anecdotes. It's part of the process of not traumatising myself further than I need to, and I don't want to wear out anybody's scroll wheel.

Thankfully my second debilitating bout of week-long adrenaline-comedown 'panic attacks', insomnia, cold sweats etc as a result of grenfell exposure has largely subsided, aided by quitting absolutely every non-food substance, and various forms of physical exercise.

My kidneys still feel like they have been beaten up.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby jimmy spako on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:29 pm

bishopdante wrote:So, um, pardon me for skirting round the deposition of direct anecdotes. It's part of the process of not traumatising myself further than I need to, and I don't want to wear out anybody's scroll wheel.

Thankfully my second debilitating bout of week-long adrenaline-comedown 'panic attacks', insomnia, cold sweats etc as a result of grenfell exposure has largely subsided, aided by quitting absolutely every non-food substance, and various forms of physical exercise.

My kidneys still feel like they have been beaten up.


No need to apologize. I'm sorry. And thanks for writing all that. Sometimes it is hard to tell who is coming from a place of abstraction and remove and who is down in it with the anonymity and all. Huge respect to you for doing what you're doing. I hope you have some kind of support in place where you are. And I hope that you will write more here if it helps to process any of that or just get it out, I really do. Best to you, bishopdante.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby dontfeartheringo on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Dave N. wrote:
bumble wrote: Does anyone else have recurrent intrusive memories of all the various times you fucked up? Man oh man.


Constantly. Always. I live in a hail of regret and grief over dumb and irrelevant exchanges with other humans. I'm still cringing over things I said or did in third grade, and I'm showing no signs of letting up. I want to kick the ass of the person or people who hardwired my brain this way, genetically or otherwise. Every now and then the storm breaks and I scramble to get things done, but for the most part, I'm in a constant state of hunkering.

Meditation and 5-HTP helps. One of these days, I'll give xanax a whirl.


Just read that getting less than eight hours of sleep shows some statistically significant increase in unbidden/unwanted thoughts.

I'm working with a friend on a Fast 15 things you can do in the middle of a panic/anxiety/desire for self harm attack.

This is a first draft. Your input is sought.

The Fast 15
1. Take ten deep breaths, as slowly and as deeply as you can. Imagine your heart slowing down.
2. If you are in private, say aloud "I'm ok. Things are going to be ok" even if you don't feel this way, just say it a couple of times.
3. Eat a handful of almonds or some other dense protein- a can of tuna, a boiled egg, even you are not hungry. Keep it simple.
4. Are you in direct physical danger? Yes? LEAVE and go to a safe place. No? OK. Say "I am safe" aloud. Say it again.
5. Make your bed.
6. Is it safe for you to walk in your neighborhood? If not, is there a park you can get to? Walk for half an hour, as fast as you can without feeling weird about it.
7. Evaluate your current caffeine/stimulant intake. How much coffee/tea/energy drink have you had? Allow yourself to consider that your fear might be artificially amplified. Cut back.
8. Drink water. At least as much water as you've had coffee or tea.
9. Take a bath.
10. Make a list of threats, write it down. Evaluate which are real and which are imagined. Take a giant black marker and strike through the imagined ones.
11. Start planning how to get help. In the US, mental health services can be hard to locate and pay for, but make this a priority. Fight for yourself.
12. Begin building your recovery community- who can you confide in? Contact them and let them know what's happening and ASK FOR HELP.
13. Go to bed early and get up in the morning. You may not get eight hours, but start trying to. Regular sleep and getting eight hours can be a magic bullet.
14. Cry if you need to. Don't judge yourself for feeling sadness.
15. Remind yourself that this will pass and you will survive it.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby Facundo on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:17 pm

Three Two One
One Two Three
What The Heck
Is Bothering Me?

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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby dontfeartheringo on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:18 pm

tmidgett wrote:John Bonham has no competition. Literally none.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby Facundo on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:37 pm

^ with another methodology they came to the same conclusion as the russians from the Russian Sleep Experiment Hoax from 1940.

During a psychotic break i stayed near ten days without sleep and without eating food, alone in a home in a village. I only smoked cigarettes and drank light coffee (not expresso) while being on a chair all the fucking day in day out, night in, night out. Although I do not sleep, I lay on a bed with a sheep wool mattress and I felt that noise of the few cars that passed by the road as if they passed over my body. My activities were none, as simple as carrying the head on the shoulders and the eyes open.

This is the kind of non-ordinary experience of consciousness I do not just do not recommend because there is loss of consciousness, after will not be as before.

At the day nine my mom come to the rescue and I was able to speak for the first time in all that time and i understood I need to take care of the self myself is.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby jimmy spako on Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:26 pm

That is great, Ringo.

The big thing missing in my opinion is to try to talk to someone who you trust or who knows what you are experiencing, as soon as you can. It helps to blow your own cover as quickly as possible with someone who will just know, who will share the knowledge with you. They don't have to do anything at all. Saying it out loud is a decent way to defang it a bit, and of course to admit what is happening to yourself and try to observe what is going on. I found outing myself pre-emptively to employers and friends I trusted helped me to first off maybe have fewer attacks and secondly to have a point of reference to quickly communicate that I needed a break. Again, you will probably know who to trust, but it's worth taking a risk, you might be surprised at what you hear.

It's different for everybody, so your mileage may vary, but for me the first thing if possible is to speak up and say "I feel like I'm going to have a panic attack". It doesn't happen that often now, I don't have any full-blown ones these days, but it helps to alert my partner for instance that I am feeling off, on the edge of one, in particular on the way to social things.

Also, not trying to nitpick, but that long list would make me anxious!
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby rappard on Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:56 pm

dontfeartheringo wrote:This is a first draft. Your input is sought.


To wit:

The Fast 15 (Give or Take)
0. Don't try to adhere to everything on this list all at once, that would be the mental equivalent of a crash diet. Remember: "baby steps", "easy does it", [insert other similar cliche here]. Just cherry-pick the easier ones first, and work from there.
[...]
5.1 [corollary] Do not use your bed for activities other than sleep and erm ... well, you know.
7.1 [corollary] Limit yourself to around four cups a day. Nowadays caffeine-free coffee tastes as good as the real thing.
7.2 [corollary] Do not drink coffee after 3 PM or so. Feel free to adjust this bound if you're a night owl or morning person, or if work imposes night shifts or weird hours.
16. No screen time (TV, laptop, tablet, smartphone) at least one hour before bedtime.
17. Take up a "low-level" sport. E.g., running, cycling, swimming, walking your (neighbor's) dog.
18. Journal/write. Even the dumbest braindumps and doodles can feel cathartic at times.
19. Volunteer if you can spare the energy and time. While it may be a selfish reason, helping other people feels great.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby dontfeartheringo on Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:05 pm

This is great input, friends. I will revise and annotate, have another revision up tomorrow.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby bumble on Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:37 pm

Just adding some individual-level endorsements.

Fun fact: Journalling never worked for me, as I would just end up ranting/feeding the beast.

rappard wrote:
dontfeartheringo wrote:This is a first draft. Your input is sought.


...
7.1 [corollary] Limit yourself to around four cups a day. Nowadays caffeine-free coffee tastes as good as the real thing.
7.2 [corollary] Do not drink coffee after 3 PM or so. Feel free to adjust this bound if you're a night owl or morning person, or if work imposes night shifts or weird hours.
16. No screen time (TV, laptop, tablet, smartphone) at least one hour before bedtime.

+1. These things are like religion to me so that I can get to sleep.

17. Take up a "low-level" sport. E.g., running, cycling, swimming, walking your (neighbor's) dog.

+1.

19. Volunteer if you can spare the energy and time. While it may be a selfish reason, helping other people feels great.


+ 10. Getting outside of your own head is the very best thing.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby SkronkFronkerdale on Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:01 pm

Reading some of your guys' stories brings me to tears. From 11 to 25 I was in an absolute hell from panic anxiety and severe OCD. The last 5 certainly haven't been easy, but they've definitely been the best years of my life due to my medication. I was never very enthusiastic about going on meds, but suffering badly enough for long enough I stopped caring about that and would have done anything for relief, just pure desperation. Better meds than opiates or something, and I got lucky with my meds as I don't notice much at all side-effect wise. A few of my closest friends are currently suffering from anxiety and even OCD to some degree, and I'm really grateful now for my experiences cause it allows me to talk them through things and understand what they are going through. In the OCD cases it can feel like you must be the biggest freak in history. OCD and chronic anxiety is not something you can truly understand unless you've gone through it yourself.

What always helped me the most was finding something to focus on that was productive and forced my diverted attention for an extended period of time. Its easier said than done, but your subconscious needs to be tricked out of anxiety the same way it is, largely, tricked into it, via conscious behavior. It does a lot for your psyche and your depleted sense of self if you can find an upbuilding outlet of some kind. Also helped me, with the intrusive thoughts and spikes, to tell myself that I'd set aside time later to respond to them, and keep prolonging the "later". Gives time to build up strength, and also restores your sense of self somewhat because you have more and more aspects of daily life where you are not your OCD, intrusive thoughts, or anxiety. Eventually I would extend my "later" longer and longer until it faded more and more into the background, and I could cling more and more to the aspects of myself that were not my OCD, where I could feel like I was more than that awful thing. The more the anxiety subsides, the less power the thoughts will have over you when they are addressed. The terrible shame and humiliation was really hard for me, as it often seemed like my every waking moment was consumed by this ugly beast that was often completely absurd and irrational. Was a huge relief in my later teen years when I discovered that "OCD" is a thing, and that other people go through it. I was especially ashamed of my existence up til that discovery. Thinking of you all.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby MJongo on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:06 pm

I don’t even know the difference between depression and anxiety anymore. I just can’t get myself to even try. I know I’m gonna have an anxiety attack at my new job as a delivery driver sooner than later and I know that I’m going to panic and quit on the spot or something and I know I’m going to disappoint all my friends and family yet again. I just can’t make it in this world. I have exactly two friends that I share taste in music with (one of the couple interests left that I still get a little happiness from) and one of them never wants to hang out anymore and the other lives 50 miles away. I know this is weird to ask here but if anyone here lives in/near Akron or Cleveland and wants to listen to/talk music I’d love to make more friends.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby Janeway on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:25 pm

^i just want you to know that thats okay. you can be depressed and have anxiety and fuck up your life and its just true facts is all, true as havng brown hair brown eyes or a lollipop for an avatar or soemthing, its just facts, crippling and terrible and i cant imagine what you go through but your support system should be an energizer bunny never giving up on you getting that next job.

work at fuckin wendys so you can talk shit to people, fuck em. you know? dye your hair rainbow and only work somewhere that you'd be hired for your merits or become a tattoo artist. dont think you "should" be a certain way cause life is literally breathing. having mental health issues is like having special needs you cant discriminate your own self you gotta love your own self.

after my scrape with death in 2016 i was anxious coming out of the hospital and what made me feel better was watching whoopi goldberg belly laugh at folks being totally lame about stupid shit and if you can get yourself to eventually get a good belly laugh about something, thats all you need. life is grass growing outside, and anxious or depressing chemical imbalance feelings are just like poltergeist trying to haunt you and you just aknowledge it but dont let it fuck with you. fuck those ghosts.

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blast your music and rock cleveland, at least youre cool enough to be here 8)
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby MJongo on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:59 pm

That makes me feel better than anything my therapists have said to me over the years (I don’t want to talk shit to anyone though). I don’t really know where to begin though. I’ve completely repressed my grade school memories, I only made a couple friends in high school, and it wasn’t until after I went to college (and dropped out a couple years later) that I really became aware that there were other people like me that didn’t fit in (I was a closet queer that simultaneously didn’t believe in any of the religious doctrine I was taught in Catholic school yet was still ashamed of myself and was afraid of being excluded from the little social life I had). So I had an incredibly late start in building up any meaningful support system. Lately I’ve built enough courage to sing Pere Ubu covers at open mics with my friend on guitar (and apparently I’m pretty good, as a few people have told me afterwards [of course, I don’t know if that’s a good metric considering that people who think I suck probably wouldn’t actually tell me]), but I want to do my own stuff and I’m extremely limited both financially and ability-wise in making music. I guess what I’m trying to say with all this rambling is that trying to express myself is extremely hard considering my late start, my past scars, my poverty, my lack of instrumental skill, being an outsider to the music scene, and my medical issues (ADHD, ASD, Major Depressive Disorder). That’s a pretty overwhelming list :(
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby Janeway on Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:51 am

anxiety is just a ghost trying to haunt the chemicals inside your brain the way the fieldmouse is trying to haunt my sleep inside my bedroom walls

im not saying you can control the feeling, but once you recognize it you can keep it from becoming more powerful at you. like, could i help the white spider that came paratrooping down at me making me scream haf the house up in the middle of the night? no but after i killed it i could tell it to have respect for the human kingdom . im scared of eating a bug in my sleep but i decided to turn it around to empower myself like that little bug fuck is lucky i didnt make it my thanksgiving dinner, and its protein and wont kill me, infact if i was in a foreign prison id be killing to eat bugs just for protein. perspective is a kinda cure to frame what we cannot control.
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby Janeway on Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:17 am

and jongo

1. get yourself a happy box filled with stuff that puts a smile on your face, a favorite perfume or pictures of a puppy or sexual devices, whatever it takes for rainy days when you need something to turn to.

2. dont think in shoulds because nobody is supposed to do anything, you can just exist like an ant and go when its your time. money? skillz? big fuckin deal its just peppering your life story to seem like more than an ant. you sir can play an instrument and are brave enough to sing pere ubu in front of others and not even have to wonder if poeple were into it cause you've gotten positive feedback, so keep making yourself happy. i dont care if you have a blue nose or adhd or last tuesdays newspaper, those are just facts that dont change who you are and shouldnt shatter your core belief system.

3. im not sure when you had to deal with the ridicukous stringency at school and i hope it wasnt the kinda nuns that slap you but its a new geenration taking over called millenial vanity, be a millenial with us and own your life story. i live at home which is unsexy in the 90s but i feel like i truly dont give a fuck, the only thing that matters is getting laid and its not a problem no matter what anyones situation is, folks always hook up and get together and thats a beautiful thing. the folks working at wendys get laid more than the high power depressed attorneys out there and dont have to pay for the sex even, thats truly something... keep expressing yourself and it'll get easier the way learning guitar got easier im assuming cause i cant do that at all it hurts my fingers too much

overall everything bad about yourself you just have to own it. you think youre a rambler? okay get rambling...
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the past is stuck inthe past but ou dont have to be. no sorrow about the past and no worry about the future, you stay present and realize the sun is shining or else the stars are out or if nothing else look for how much moon is out in the evening and if it not visible to make you happy you just pull your pants down and moon the sky right back and give the universe a good laugh :P
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Re: Attacked! by Anxiety!

Postby kokorodoko on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:02 am

I started doing a breathing exercise close to two months ago. It was some doctor guy on youtube and I don't remember the name, it was supposed to make you sleep better or something. It consists of breathing in a 4-7-8 pattern: Breathe in while counting 4, hold breath while counting 7, then while counting 8 let your breath escape like you're blowing out candles (gently).
Do this 4 times in a row, twice a day. The guy specifically said not to do more than that.

Comparing my mood then to now I have much more energy, I get more shit done, jolt up at 7 in the morning and generally have way less of that heavy, tiring feeling that seems to accompany me everywhere.
Now who knows - A lot of things have been shifting in my psyche the past fall, and some of my state of mind right now is probably accumulated effects passing some threshold. I recall though that some of the times doing this exercise there was an immediate sense of relaxation the moment I began.

It certainly can't hurt to give it a try.


EDIT: Found it.

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