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Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

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Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby Hosoi on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:42 pm

Hey, Andrew B. Cohen.

I have this problem where I'm fixated on Orange amps and how bad they sound. Maybe the old ones sounded good, but the ones now sound terrible, and by terrible, I mean they are powerless. They are not loud, I swear to you.

It seems they sponsor people like Gira and Timony now, both of whom I've seen and not quite heard because Orange sucks so hard.

I am just wondering if you agree that these amps are lame garbage? I have never seen you play through one, and I have always heard you. Hearing you shred gives me great enjoyment. I think I have more questions for you, but like I said, I've got this problem now, this Orange fixation.

Yours Truly,

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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby Speedie on Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:24 am

I like my AD-30 just fine. sounds awesome and is fucking loud as fuck. I think you need to do a little more research. Bro.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby ldopa_chicago on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:09 pm

Speedie wrote:IANABC, but I like my AD-30 just fine. sounds awesome and is fucking loud as fuck. I think you need to do a little more research. Bro.

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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby tallchris on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:15 pm

IANABC, but I've never thought of any Orange amps as being powerless or not loud, even the current higher gain models.

FM Hosoi, I wonder if this has more to do with the venues you've seen Swans and Ex Hex at and the volumes that the bands are made to play at, or that they prefer to play at themselves. I doubt that either of those bands are getting any sort of Orange endorsement or anything.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby garthplinko on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:27 pm

tallchris wrote: I wonder if this has more to do with the venues you've seen Swans and Ex Hex at and the volumes that the bands are made to play at, or that they prefer to play at themselves. I doubt that either of those bands are getting any sort of Orange endorsement or anything.


IAANABC but it brings up a good point and a conversation I've heard a lot.

"show was great but I couldn't hear anything"
"oh? Where were you?"
"right up front man! Right in the middle!"

Best place to SEE a show, worst place to HEAR a show - at least at larger venues. This pattern sorta shows the problem, although most of the time I see the speaker columns pointing straight out which is even worse.

Image

Sorry to digress. Never heard a problem w/ Orange before. I could see where any scooped-mid guitar tone could cause this problem though. Big Muffs also known to do this to a degree.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby tmidgett on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:34 pm

Hosoi is a lady, bro.

IANABC, but...

I know what you mean about Oranges.

I like them a lot, at least the old ones. I don't know much about the new ones.

But they've never struck me as scooped....Seems to me that they have a particularly midrange-heavy sound that doesn't necessarily cut all that well in a lot of rock bands.

Like most amps, they have to be matched up with the right guitar.

It's not Andy's kind of sound, for the most part.

The only time I ever heard ABC play through an Orange and have it sound great was when he played a Veleno through an OR120 on something we recorded once. Very bright guitar.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby tallchris on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:38 pm

tmidgett wrote:
But they've never struck me as scooped....Seems to me that they have a particularly midrange-heavy sound that doesn't necessarily cut all that well in a lot of rock bands.


Yeah, this was the problem I had with the AD30 and why I sold it eventually. Would sound fine on it's own, but kinda became mush and didn't cut through when playing with a full band. My other amps sounded better either distorted (Marshalls) or clean (Bassman).
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby taylor swiftboat orgy on Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:38 pm

tallchris wrote:
"show was great but I couldn't hear anything"
"oh? Where were you?"
"right up front man! Right in the middle!"

Best place to SEE a show, worst place to HEAR a show -


I never stand in the front. Aside from getting squashed - depending on the type of show - or kicked in the head by the gonzo guy who inappropriately cannon balls himself into the crowd - it always sounds like shit. I actually prefer moving around the venue to find the best spot. One place it is never is in the front.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby howiemarx on Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:34 pm

:|
Last edited by howiemarx on Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby taylor swiftboat orgy on Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:05 pm

^ yeah esp. basements. Though I've seen a few bands who really seem to understand how these small spaces affect sound and make the appropriate adjustments. When it's done right the sound is unbelievable. While I enjoy the communal aspects of those venues, the romance of its didacticism wears thin when the space alters the presentation of the art. I appreciate more neutral sound spaces just like I prefer white walls in galleries.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby Carl on Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:42 pm

taylor swiftboat orgy wrote: I actually prefer moving around the venue to find the best spot. One place it is never is in the front.

Yes. I am more likely to be found near the mixing board than up front.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby sitwell on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:07 am

I have an Orange AD-15 that I kind of regret buying(it's my only amp and not very versatile), but if you blend it with a Deluxe Reverb or Twin it's the best guitar sound I've gotten. I'm certainly not a pro, though.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby jimmy spako on Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:35 am

garthplinko wrote:Image


IANABC, but i can imagine what pickup line that stage is about to try out.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby Hosoi on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:44 pm

Hey, Andrew B. Cohen.

You know Axis: Bold as Love?

"Bold as love/Just ask the axis"?

What is that supposed to mean?

I could look it up, but I prefer when people really know things.

Maybe you don't know!

Yours Truly,

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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby steve on Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:25 am

IANABC but old Orange amps like the OR80 or OR120 are ripping loud. Paint peeling. Certain Orange cabinets were terribly inefficient back then, with flimsy 15 or 30 watt speakers, but the amps themselves, into say a Marshall 1960 cabinet or a Hiwatt cabinet with the Fane speakers... Ripping, snarling loud.

The newer Orange-branded amps are nothing like that, they are darker, overdrive earlier and can sound slightly muddy to my ear, but they're fine amps as an option and for people who build their sound around them there's no reason they wouldn't be ideal for one thing or another.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby bishopdante on Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:04 am

OR120 is not just hazardously loud, but also incredibly heavy to lug around, the transformers in them are the size of a toaster.

Other problem is they really want to be run on full volume to sound as they should, on half volume they don't sound very exciting.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby bishopdante on Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:28 am

garthplinko wrote:a conversation I've heard a lot.

"show was great but I couldn't hear anything"
"oh? Where were you?"
"right up front man! Right in the middle!"

Best place to SEE a show, worst place to HEAR a show - at least at larger venues.


With current line arrays, they're trying to construct a continuous and tightly-directed planar wavefront out of a lot of different speakers. This can cause a lot of problems – line arrays are mainly used for their ability to throw sound long distances without big reductions of volume, ease of transit, ease of rigging (can be flown without building an enormous scaffold) power handling, and overall control, but not sound quality. The speakers can end up fighting each other rather than working in unison, each one has a complicated directivity and the concentrated sound pressure in front of the cabinets can produce conflicting acoustic loads on each speaker – the assumption is that every box works identically, but the issue is in practise much more complex, these days every box gets sent a different signal to compensate.

The misalignment of each box in the line-array becomes more of a problem when you're standing to the side of the array and the distances start to vary substantially between the speakers at the listening position. Indoors, reflections of these bad-frequency-response phasey mis-aligned extreme-angle emissions can be a serious problem.

This is why in a really difficult acoustic, a lot of the time you'll see a little cluster flown up the top in the middle of the stage working as a center-fill, usually something like this: http://meyersound.com/news/2005/royal_a ... d/?type=26 < possibly the worst sounding building in the world.

Another neat solution is to put a couple of small ground stacks at the front of the stage, angled down into the audience, covering the very front of the audience, put the mains with a wider spacing out of the way.

Designing a stage which has poor sound at the front, that's the stage designer's fault.
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby Hosoi on Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:05 am

Hosoi
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby Andrew B. Cohen on Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:56 pm

Hey Hoisoi, OK, I finally saw this!

I will say that the only Orange amps I have played through much at all are Steve's. I recall that one is 120W and maybe one is 80W. They are both old, like maybe late-'60s or early '70s. One has only symbols under the few knobs, the other has symbols and the normal words, like "bass" "treble" "gain" etc.

These amps are great. They are really loud and have a lot of midrange. They are not 100 miles away from a similar era 4-input no master volume marshall, but as I recall, may be even "middier." I like them through the flimsy original speakers as you get some cool compression and it helps tame the volume beast a little. Not a lot, just a bit.

I haven't heard the new ones almost at all. They sound like they are not good, so I would get over those and if you want to look awesome with the unmistakable Orange aesthetic get an old one.

That's all I got. I have used Marshalls, tweed fenders and AC-30 type things much more in my career, but Steve's Oranges are right up there in coolness!
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Re: Hey, Andrew B. Cohen

Postby numberthirty on Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:34 pm



A quick bit about this...

These are the pickups he's using now -

phpBB [media]


I could easily see these pickups alone with that amp playing up the sound you are talking about.
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