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The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby BClark on Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:18 pm

Since content served directly on the EA forum is mostly text with very little media (all of the videos/sound being served from elsewhere), it is unlikely to be seriously affected by throttling in a post-net-neutrality US. Youtube links for instance allow content to be included on our boards without being served from the same server as our board and database; that content is streamed from, for instance, the Youtube servers, with your browser connecting the dots - and without Net Neutrality, Youtube would be likely to cough up the dough for sustained content delivery speed.

Then again we don't know all the details for sure, as net neutrality has not been nuked yet. All of this remains to be seen, and the most frustrating thing about this whole debate is that it is grounded in an as-yet hypothetical and untested scenario, with the proponents of eliminating net neutrality being a handful of suits who tell us "oh trust us, it will be fine."

But this would certainly affect other sites you visit that serve their own media files/streams or just large amounts of data in general. Basically anyone whose business is too small to cough up the cash for preferential service or "fast lanes," which means a shit ton of startups. This is why the tech community talks about net neutrality being a means for large dinosaur companies to stifle innovation with a prohibitively expensive barrier of entry - and to me it appears to be that, in spades. And remember that the companies pushing for nuking net neutrality - Comcast, Verizon, etc - are the ones who tend to do the least innovation these days (Verizon is not exactly Bell Labs anymore) while price-gouging the end user. It's a free-market mafia move favored by monolithic and stagnant dinosaur companies, to put it simply.

Again, I don't imagine EA is threatened seriously but who knows - opening the floodgates of the free market to an already hyper-capitalistic internet can't be good. Keep in mind that the "last mile" of network connections such as the internet is where the biggest bottleneck for speed occurs, and ending net neutrality would let your cable company or ISP essentially act as the mafia by throttling that last mile for those who don't pay. Again, this applies more to content providers than end users (who already have to pay for preferential access in the last mile, if you even have the option) but like I said, it is an opening of the floodgates.
Last edited by BClark on Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby matthew on Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:33 pm

I think a site like this isn't a priority target for people or government institutions who wish to suppress free speech. I'm speaking as an American living here in the United States and under the laws here.

It's a website for a very boutique recording studio (I mean, what Mr. Albini does is part of a very boutique industry in this day and age) which just so happens to have a very lively webforum.

In any case, it's high time for more individual people to physically keep their own web servers, own their own domains, and ditch the whole joke that social media, cloud computing and sharing/sharecropping web economics and finance all are.

All that sort of stuff is bullshit when all is said and done. If you want true net neutrality, be yourself, own something, and don't sharecrop yourself through bytes. Use the internet as a tool for real things in the real world, not as an end in itself.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby tbone on Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:49 pm

Yeah, sorry for being flippant. I couldn't come up with a way to respond that article without being a bigger asshole than just saying "no." But hey here goes.

The article you linked, PJ, was from some 3rd rate political site that I fully expected to blast pop-up ads at me about dick pills when I went there. And was like "imagine a world where..." which is similar to what you would see in a high schooler's essay, not exactly top tier journalism. If you go down that route, shit, imagine a world where aliens land and take a crap that smells so bad we all die. That is also not completely out of the realm of all possibilities.

Doing away with net neutrality would be a really shitty thing, yes. But it won't end life as we know it and cause every web site that isn't Netflix, YouTube, Facebook, etc. to just be rendered useless and go away. It will just be another barrier to entry for the next big thing like that, which, don't get me wrong, is shitty and dangerous and plays into the interest of huge corporations already running the show. But even with that shitty situation...they would not go so far as to just ruin the whole Internet for everyone completely. Then people would start just saying "you know what? Fuck this shit. I am going outside." Or to not oversimplify, people would search out other unfettered avenues and stop paying Verizon et al. They would only make it *just enough* shitty that your average person would not give a shit, stopping short of some dystopian big brother nightmare.

Also, it is pretty laughable to think we could pool our resources and then we would get the same QOS for the shit talking we do on here as YouTube. Not to mention, as pointed out above, you don't even need that much bandwidth to display message board text, and people just link pics and videos from sites who would already be paying providers for top tier QOS.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby Anthony Flack on Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:55 pm

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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby P.J. Craven on Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:05 am

tbone wrote:3rd rate political site that I fully expected to blast pop-up ads at me about dick pills when I went there. And was like "imagine a world where..." which is similar to what you would see in a high schooler's essay, not exactly top tier journalism. If you go down that route, shit, imagine a world where aliens land and take a crap that smells so bad we all die. That is also not completely out of the realm of all possibilities.


It's a first-rate site run by an academic who lives in Holland and, as of this year, another one at UCLA. I've followed it for something like fourteen years now. They do outstanding work. That said, thanks for the detailed response.

I'm still not sure that I am as unconcerned as you about this. Net Neutrality is definitely about to die. It has been presented to me as being the end of the Internet as we know it enough times now that am wondering why so many non-corporate sites were so up in arms about it in the first place. But again, I am not an expert on this sort of technology.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby tbone on Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:46 am

I could be wrong. Like I said, it's not like it will be a good thing. I mean, we elected Trump this year, so I shouldn't underestimate how fucked up things can get due to unchecked idiocy.

Edited to add: getting back to the original question - even if the end of net neutrality somehow DOES fuck things up so badly that this site is rendered useless...the only true fix would be to somehow stop electing asshole plutocrats. I don't think we're looking at some sort of bake sale/bikini carwash situation to keep the ol' site running.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby Anthony Flack on Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:48 pm

Yeah, 'unconcerned' is not the word. There's plenty to be concerned about.

But it won't fuck up the entire internet so badly that there are no more message boards. Nobody is going to want to destroy all the world's knitting groups, piss everybody off for no reason and create a sudden massive demand for competing services. Don't worry about piddling little enclaves like the PRF. Think more along the lines of stuff like Bandcamp.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby Anthony Flack on Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:56 pm

I suspect a bigger threat to the PRF is the continuing drift of people using the FB group instead because they apparently like Mark Zuckerberg's place more than Steve's, go figure.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby JohnnySomersett on Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:53 am

Anthony Flack wrote:I suspect a bigger threat to the PRF is the continuing drift of people using the FB group instead because they apparently like Mark Zuckerberg's place more than Steve's, go figure.


I've never even felt the need to even seek it out. Maybe it's more popular for the 'General Discussion' side of things but for Tech I'd feel it was too quick/rushed to be able to fully absorb information. Plus, too easy to lose the library of information contained herein.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby JohnnySomersett on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:06 am

Anthony Flack wrote: Think more along the lines of stuff like Bandcamp.


This.

The record companies have been looking for a way to reign in their loss of control and I suspect they will see this opening and try to exploit it.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby Boombats on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:12 am

JohnnySomersett wrote:
Anthony Flack wrote:I suspect a bigger threat to the PRF is the continuing drift of people using the FB group instead because they apparently like Mark Zuckerberg's place more than Steve's, go figure.


I've never even felt the need to even seek it out. Maybe it's more popular for the 'General Discussion' side of things but for Tech I'd feel it was too quick/rushed to be able to fully absorb information. Plus, too easy to lose the library of information contained herein.

The PRF Appreciation FB group is no threat to the Tech Room, or to EA at all really. The group doesn't get much action these days anyway. I think any uptick in inter-PRF facebooking can be explained by the real-life connections that have been made. More FMs know each other now so they are linked via FB. Also it's a better place to shitpost.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby JohnnySomersett on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:21 am

Boombats wrote:
JohnnySomersett wrote:
Anthony Flack wrote:I suspect a bigger threat to the PRF is the continuing drift of people using the FB group instead because they apparently like Mark Zuckerberg's place more than Steve's, go figure.


I've never even felt the need to even seek it out. Maybe it's more popular for the 'General Discussion' side of things but for Tech I'd feel it was too quick/rushed to be able to fully absorb information. Plus, too easy to lose the library of information contained herein.

The PRF Appreciation FB group is no threat to the Tech Room, or to EA at all really. The group doesn't get much action these days anyway. I think any uptick in inter-PRF facebooking can be explained by the real-life connections that have been made. More FMs know each other now so they are linked via FB. Also it's a better place to shitpost.


Makes sense. I assumed it would be mostly shooting the shit but, well, I'm trying to spend less time on disgracebook so I'll keep to just this time-vacuum for the foreseeable.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby P.J. Craven on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:31 am

The board contains a vast amount of [often] well-organized information that you can find easily using Google—especially great for, perhaps surprisingly, travel tips. It's a resource that was hugely responsible for allowing me to do what I do now. The group is mostly for gossip and endlessly ragging Billy Corgan/Dave Grohl. Both resources have their place, but the OG remains just that.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby bishopdante on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:21 pm

Incidentally...

We don't currently have net neutrality.

http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014 ... eutrality/
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby P.J. Craven on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:44 pm

So, will this site be affected or not? Most people here brushed off the significance of this eventuality.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby bishopdante on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:56 am

Well... at worst here is what an anti-neutral (information super-toll road) Internet could look like:

Bad: End users pay a flat fee of X for Facebook, Netflix, Spotify, YouTube, Xbox live etc ... but are billed $ouch per megabyte for accessing non-fastlane services, which are also slow as hell.

Worse: End users pay *per service*, eg: so you can get a facebook-only subscription for $cheap.

Real bad: the Internet splits up into national networks and commercial enclaves, with censorship and firewalls preventing non-authorised packets from travelling. (Similar to China's great firewall). If you are on network X, services belonging to competitors or other geographical areas could be blocked.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby P.J. Craven on Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:41 am

Well, maybe the forum will be okay? But now that Net Neutrality is dead, here’s a Washington Post article.
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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby bishopdante on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:45 pm

https://n-o-d-e.net/netneutrality.html

NET NEUTRALITY
--
People are talking about net neutrality in the US again, and I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject, because I think it is more nuanced than others would lead us to believe.

I'm not an expert, so take my thoughts with a hefty bucketful of salt. I'll keep it short.

phpBB [media]


THE PROBLEM
Many are fearful that if the idea of net neutrality is removed by law, then ISP's in the US will be free to censor, throttle, and basically destroy everything good about the open internet.

The nightmare scenario would be living in an area where there are only 1 or 2 ISPs, and both of them price gouge for access to the open web. Many people might not be able to afford this, and they'd be left with crappy lower tier, throttled internet. That would obviously suck.

I think many people are missing the point of WHY the situation is like that in the first place though. Local and federal governments are the ones who cause this to happen. They are the ones who sign exclusivity deals with ISPs to lay down fibre in cities and towns. They are also the ones who allow or disallow businesses to use certain airwaves to transmit data. They say who can and can't launch and use communication satellites in specific geographies. All this is important to internet infrastructure.

In an ideal situation, anyone (including you and your community) would easily be able to set up a rival ISP and compete, offering an equal or cheaper price for the open web. People would flock to it in droves.

So I think we've been tricked by a slight of hand move. They are the ones who caused the problem, by enabling the monopolies, yet they're also the ones people are asking to save it. That doesn't make sense to me.

It goes without saying that access to an open internet is extremely important, but I think we're not seeing the bigger picture here.

IS THERE A SOLUTION?
I don't like the idea of begging politicians to help save the internet. That is a slave mindset. We need some of that Satoshi mindset if you ask me.

What we could do is seriously start developing, funding and promoting alternative networks that side step all this nonsense. Both with software, and physical infrastructure. If you have the skills, you should be involved.

As an example, almost everyone already carries a network connected computer that's capable of acting like a node in a mesh network in their pockets, and we need to utilize that capability. Maybe couple that with cryptocurrency micropayments to incentivize sharing of bandwidth and resources, and you could be onto something.

Besides that, I don't exactly know what that would look like yet. With that said, you can be sure that IF things do start going down a bad path, there are many smart people who will be very motivated if their freedoms are seriously in danger of being taken away.

They say necessity is the mother of all invention, and I am confident that if people were backed into a corner, and forced to get creative, I think they would do just that. There would be just too many people motivated to make it happen. Think of all the geniuses in silicon valley who would turn their attention to solving that problem.

So in closing, an open internet is extremely important, but I think we need to look inward on how we can make it happen. We need an open internet, but we probably need to build a new one to achieve it. Maybe one of you watching this will be the person to make that breakthrough, allowing us not to rely so heavily on ISPs. That's my hope anyway.

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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby Facundo on Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:09 pm

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Re: The EA Forum in a Post-Net Neutrality Environment

Postby Me Again on Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:34 pm

Welcome to the world of tomorrow: it is getting pretty lame in here, isn't it?

I hope you enjoy your shriveling freedoms while they last.

The future belongs to the squeaky clean technocrats who've got nothing to hide and no real agenda but just want "what's best for everyone." They had no hand in making the internet but you'd never know it from the way they act like they've always owned the place.
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