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Music business today. I am way behind the times.

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Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby soundsofcallado on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:42 am

Read this:

http://metaldevastationradio.com/thebea ... get-signed

While I don't doubt the validity of this article (you gotta have a social media presence, you gotta tour hard and earn it, etc), what I can't figure out or understand is the streaming sales thing.

Seems like copyright is a thing of the past and, I think, to get the streaming sales that rightfully belong to you, you'd need to register with ASCAP, BMI or SESAC in order to collect these royalties. I have been a member of ASCAP since 2012 and back in the day used CD Baby to get all my weirdo jams on to places like iTunes, Spotify, Apple music et. al. And given, I make some really odd sounds and many of the bands I've been in aren't chart toppers, but since 2012 I've made $14 from streaming sales (according to CD Baby; my ASCAP has always shown $0).

Someone explain this to me, please. Any stream of your music anywhere in the world nets money? How does it get back to you? Does copyright matter? What about the publishing organizations? If this is how it works, why not just flood the internet with everything you can put on and hope someone listens to or uses it?

On a somewhat related note: if the goal is to have a social media presence (an image projected out by you of you that may not necessarily be you) and all you gotta do is collect your streaming money, then why go tour in the first place? Why be in a live band instead of a recording project that makes nifty videos?

I understand that pop, hip-hip and R&B (or whatever these things are nowadays) are a totally different animal than metal or rock and so on, but I really struggle to understand the model. Maybe I'm overthinking it entirely? Does radio airplay matter anymore? I don't recall anyone making tons of money off of that, but for exposure... main stream radio is weak, but things like Sirius seem to have a varied set of songs and styles.

Or should any of this matter and it should all be free?

Sorry for any similar posts or things I missed in the search bar.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Facundo on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:08 pm

In Europe they got a fixed charge for all storage devices such as hard drives, laser discs and even fungibles such as paper sheets. Then they got another fixed fee for each connection to the internet, television, computer, smartphone or tablet. So I want to consider that I paid in advance for the copyrighted garbage they want i listen or see. Although some day may be known the techniques of manipulation in those sounds and images about human people, ruining lives, especially in adolescence and that people in rights management entities and producers of audiovisual fiction with social engineering objectives have to sneeze all the cocaine that was put in their noses to resell until they can pay damages to a new government structure champion of "good and charity" but responsible for cheating us financially in a more sophisticated way in the famous but true-future nwo, writting this in this forum with my best aluminium paper hood.

But wait, year 2017... scandals do not matter because we are all about something else and nobody gives a fuck for the life of the other.

So in relation to the current status of forest doors... here where I live most of non commercial bands aren't selling anymore a decent qty of recorded plastics until in their live events even to amortize the pressing or replication.

So the scenario is this:

- Small and average record labels aren't paying the recordings of the bands anymore.

- So these labels are trying to justify their percentage income with the costs of licensing, promotion and digital publishing in an attempt to keep the pan by the handle and demonstrating its parasitic and unnecessary nature far from investments and risks but with incomes with the same approach of the others ignorance, historical basis of this business.

- Many individuals running their record labels are trying to digest the plastic they've ordered because love and astigmatism.

- Physical editions are disappearing where the vinyl factories are busy with that 16/44 even 192kbps mp3 to be pressed and at same time there is a second - secondhand price bubble of historical art documents which won't be oficially pressed again.

- Now the artists can not scale hit lists without their hit song carrying the word Feat. in the title. Now is the Feat. time, not a time for bands or groups starting by two individuals. Give me your ego dope and i will dope your Ego.

- And the money for all the brains liquefied by the Melodyne and Autotune softwares is not being invested in sonic technology for the pleasure of better quality products since the community is happy with the current result of artificial tuning techniques.

There are many more desolate scenes when i look the music scene, but I do not feel morally strong to put on makeup with additive humor and and fantasy glitter.

Well.com to the happy now.com
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby 24K on Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:27 am

soundsofcallado wrote:
On a somewhat related note: if the goal is to have a social media presence (an image projected out by you of you that may not necessarily be you) and all you gotta do is collect your streaming money, then why go tour in the first place? Why be in a live band instead of a recording project that makes nifty videos?


Artists go on tour to earn money playing & selling their merch, the latter made easier by the addition of alcohol, & in the case of pop stars, parents with disposable income. A friend recently commented that the had to be extra careful when out shopping with their two year old as if she see's a product with her fav cartoon branded on it, there's a complete meltdown if it isn't bought for her.

I doubt there are many artists that could survive on streaming revenue alone.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby projectMalamute on Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:49 am

soundsofcallado wrote:Why be in a live band instead of a recording project that makes nifty videos?


Because being in a live band is awesome and being in a recording project that makes nifty videos sounds excruciating.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby bishopdante on Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:59 am

Y'knaa!

I mean... make what you want to make. Certainly you could make all sorts of stuff and put it on YouTube. You could write a novel... or do a radio play (musical or non-musical).

Also, running shows you aren't dealing with some shady global corporation pimping out your warez globally and paying 1/10,000th of a cent per play, or whatever the rate.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby soundsofcallado on Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:57 am

24K wrote:
soundsofcallado wrote:
On a somewhat related note: if the goal is to have a social media presence (an image projected out by you of you that may not necessarily be you) and all you gotta do is collect your streaming money, then why go tour in the first place? Why be in a live band instead of a recording project that makes nifty videos?


Artists go on tour to earn money playing & selling their merch, the latter made easier by the addition of alcohol, & in the case of pop stars, parents with disposable income. A friend recently commented that the had to be extra careful when out shopping with their two year old as if she see's a product with her fav cartoon branded on it, there's a complete meltdown if it isn't bought for her.

I doubt there are many artists that could survive on streaming revenue alone.


I feel like the numbers this guy is using in this article are pretty inflated. I can't see anyone making enough money to survive on streaming. I'm sure the bulk of any touring band's income is merch, but I doubt that most people going to see the next hit underground jam have the insatiability of a two year old. Not to say that maybe someone wouldn't pitch a fit over a good record.

projectMalamute wrote:
soundsofcallado wrote:Why be in a live band instead of a recording project that makes nifty videos?


Because being in a live band is awesome and being in a recording project that makes nifty videos sounds excruciating.


I don't know, I could see where a recording operation only would be pretty awesome. I would get tiring of not playing out or doing things like that, but I can also see some benefits... given that you're making money.

I guess my big thing here is that I really don't comprehend (read: I'm a lummox) how anyone can confidently say that we are moving to an all streaming/all internet medium. I am not refuting the power and ease/benefit of the net, but it's not an end all. And with so many people in the middle, I don't see how streaming is lucrative at any level.

Note: I am not anti-internet or streaming. Just not sold on the all-in concept.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Boombats on Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:01 pm

People said we'd have flying cars and tv watches and all that. Well they do exist but aren't practical or even popular.

Streaming is for Muzak. Real artists shouldn't rely on it. However there should be a Pandora/Spotify type thing for underground music. Bandcamp's music feed app seems pretty close to it but I think it only plays music from artists you're already a fan of. I don't have the app so I haven't tried it. https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2014/0 ... ndcampapp/
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:52 pm

projectMalamute wrote:
soundsofcallado wrote:Why be in a live band instead of a recording project that makes nifty videos?


Because being in a live band is awesome and being in a recording project that makes nifty videos sounds excruciating.


I dunno man.

I've played hundreds of live shows and that is a thing as far as it goes, but they came and went and after 25 years of that it would be nice to work on something that is less transitory for a change. Something maybe that my kids could keep when I'm dead even.

It would be nice too to do something where writing and sound design was the starting point rather than live performance, I think. Plus I have a film degree and I would not mind at all getting into making nifty videos.

Also the only time anybody outside rural NZ sees anything I do is when I stick it online.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Bernardo on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:09 pm

But that's because you're into that process, not because you'd stand to make more off of it in the first place. What's fucked is the perspective that being in a live band is obsolete because there are more efficient ways of becoming popular.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Me Again on Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:58 am

If your "end game" is to become popular, I think you should definitely go out into the world and build your presence there. You should probably also stay in the same city, be approachable, and build relationships within your local community and around the world. (Also keep your myriad opinions about art to yourself, haha.)

Youtube is a good place for crappy cartoons, trap-based musical monstrosities, woo-y science lectures, movie trailers, and click-bait sort of videos about aliens and the afterlife. It's also got a few great lectures and a lot of good music you can test drive, but it's an ever-growing cesspool and not where most rock bands should try to stake their claim, in my opinion.

Me, I'm content with making recordings for the time being. It's a thrill to start with nothing and then have something cool to listen to, and then send copies out to my circle of friends. And the sound of them is getting better (the 45 coming out in January is the best music I've ever done). I played tons of shows in various groups growing up and now even the handful of truly great ones are vague, distant memories and I sincerely wish the better groups had taken to the time to make proper recordings. Most glory fades after a while and you're left with the work itself and the remaining relationships that have sprung from it.

Most people I've known, the main reason they'd play a show is because it'd be fun. And maybe good therapy too.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby aldofarian on Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:05 am

Jens' model, one song per person per gig:

phpBB [media]


I'm not sure what the pricing formula is but it can only work in countries where orderly queuing is the cultural norm.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Anthony Flack on Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:13 pm

I played tons of shows in various groups growing up and now even the handful of truly great ones are vague, distant memories and I sincerely wish the better groups had taken to the time to make proper recordings.


Yep.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Boombats on Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:30 pm

aldofarian wrote:Jens' model, one song per person per gig:

phpBB [media]


I'm not sure what the pricing formula is but it can only work in countries where orderly queuing is the cultural norm.

Imagine paying someone to sit down and warble over an acoustic. Fuck off with your white picket fence and Nike hat and your dad-hat-wearing dad fans and their kids. Fuck this
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Big John on Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:44 pm

You could get a regular gig playing sea shanties on acoustic guitar at the local fish and chips constabulary. The legend of awesomeness to the people and a good sandwich.

Image

That guy playing one on one staring you down gives me the creeps, too passive aggressively confrontational, kind of going eye to eye with a guy at across a urinal trough. You know it is going to suck and someone is going to get wet. Perhaps you can pay him to not play or not be forced to sit there and that is how he makes his money.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Anthony Flack on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:10 pm

ARE YOU READY TO ROCK?

Hold on a minute sir, this gentleman here was ready to rock before you. If you could just remain ready to rock, I will attend to you shortly.
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Boombats on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:20 pm

LOL
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Anthony Flack on Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:33 pm

Seen a million faces
And I rocked 'em all, one at a time
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Anthony Flack on Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:52 pm

And what's your name, sir? Alan? All right Alan, are you having a good time?

I SAID, ARE YOU HAVING A GOOD TIME?

PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR ALAN, I WANNA HEAR YOU SCREAM ALAN
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Big John on Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:18 pm

You need to portray a bigger than life image to leave a impression on your audience. Note the matching stage costumes look good have your rhinestone thong buffed.

Image

Start a band with your lady friend for that special harmonic love thang. That brings in the ladies remember females are over 50% of the population.

Image

Keep in mind to standing out is important. Props yes it worked for Carrothead and Gallager it can work for you.

Image

You can combine some audio visual aids (Power Point presentations are a plus) to your stage show too!

Image

Have you considered working with little people?

Image

Image

Just remember be memorable and Stand Out and keep it spicy!!
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Re: Music business today. I am way behind the times.

Postby Big John on Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:37 pm

I enjoy having a laugh but my advice to you 24 K is some that was given to me. "Do what you can do and don't spend time worrying about what you can't". It sounds like you are in some remote rural community and want to make videos and do soundtracks to them and post them somewhere. Sounds like a fun project, you can no doubt post the results in the watch my band thread here and it would be a way to show what you are into to others. It could lead to you getting some solo shows, I have friends who perform to their videos live with backing tracks adding whatever works live. It seems to be a current thing in the art music world. Or other people with like interests musically would have some place to check you out.

As far as video goes doing something creative to go with the music sounds cool. I see a lot of video of a group of people on tiny stages with or without people in some club playing. These are shot with the cinematography of a mini mart security cam. People move a bit on the tiny stage, lean into the mike to sing, go off camera, tap their foot off time, stand splay legged trusting their loins a-rhythmicly, and tell people to put their hands together to no audible or visual effect. Generally there would be nothing the video adds to the listening experience, I would rather see videos of pet cams and I am sure something amusing might like on AFV people getting racked, animals defecating on cars or the like would be a welcome turn.

As far as ASCAP or this is only useful if you are getting airplay or club play and it is getting logged. Copyright is useful if you are doing publishing deals. If you are not selling songs or publishing or getting lots of commercial airplay it is not much to worry about.

If going live have you considered self made Pyro using woks?

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