home studios equipment staff/friends booking/rates for sale forum contact

place: Titty Bars

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

place: titty bars

crap
72
64%
not crap
41
36%
 
Total votes : 113

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby The MayorofRockNRoll on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:16 pm

Tom wrote:
amelia wrote:Besides the majority of women don't go around stalking, harrassing, killing, choking, raping and opressing other women, especially after they get off their shift at 3am at Bob's Chicken and Titties.


This is a very specific act compared to the other things in your list.
Why did you make a point of singling out "choking"?


this is an even more specific act that the majority of men have partaken in.

Tom wrote:
amelia wrote:Besides the majority of women don't go around stalking, harrassing, killing, choking, raping and opressing other women, especially after they get off their shift at 3am at Bob's Chicken and Titties.


But I can't claim the majority of us have done this, because I'm not sure who Bob is.
I am a weird recluse only here for sex.

PRF Short Fiction Challenge

The staff weren't giving me the things I needed to do my job effectively and give the kids their money's worth...it wasn't too hard considering the concert was only $5
User avatar
The MayorofRockNRoll
Master of Cunnilingus
Master of Cunnilingus
 
Posts: 12550
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:57 pm
Location: Rock N Roll

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Boombats on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:17 pm

Choking the chicken, natch.
Escape Rope / Blxck Onion / Black Mesa
warmowski wrote:Fire back, absolutely, always and forever no matter how much it blows Andy's mind.
User avatar
Boombats
Analingus Eggnog
 
Posts: 21209
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:31 am

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Ptommydski on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:27 pm

Colonel Panic wrote:Ptommydski has said it numerous times.

In discussions whereby the context was a male dominated environment like the Electrical Audio forums. The point being that in any situation whereby the power dynamics are dramatically skewed to favour a majority over a minority, you can't treat it like it isn't the case or you're compounding the issue.

Ergo, on this white heterosexual cisgendered male dominated forum, you can't claim that everything is always equal in the discussion or treatment of different races, genders or sexualities because it isn't. In this environment (like in any other with similar demographic), acting like there is an equality between majority/minority groups is counter-productive. Equality is the desired end result, not how you get there.

Thus, the commonly used justifications such as -

1. We wouldn't care if it was a male.
2. We wouldn't care if it was a white person.
3. We wouldn't care if it was a heterosexual.
4. We wouldn't care if it was a cisgendered individual.

Are and remain total bullshit in this environment and any other whereby there's a gigantically skewed demographic. In the context of a forum filled with people who are by and large pretty much exactly like Billy Corgan in most regards, it's not the same as mocking, harassing or demonstrating prejudice towards women, non-whites, homosexuals or transexuals.

Huge and massively important distinction, it sucks that some people don't get it.
User avatar
Ptommydski
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7455
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:52 am
Location: UK

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Luzwei on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:49 pm

Boombats wrote:Choking the chicken, natch.


I'm choking my chicken right now, if you know what I mean!!!
lemur68 wrote:A bite from a Lu Zworis is also highly venomous.


I Joe 4 play.
User avatar
Luzwei
Present-day God
Present-day God
 
Posts: 9376
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Luzwei on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:51 pm

Ptommydski wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:Ptommydski has said it numerous times.

In discussions whereby the context was a male dominated environment like the Electrical Audio forums. The point being that in any situation whereby the power dynamics are dramatically skewed to favour a majority over a minority, you can't treat it like it isn't the case or you're compounding the issue.

Ergo, on this white heterosexual cisgendered male dominated forum, you can't claim that everything is always equal in the discussion or treatment of different races, genders or sexualities because it isn't. In this environment (like in any other with similar demographic), acting like there is an equality between majority/minority groups is counter-productive. Equality is the desired end result, not how you get there.

Thus, the commonly used justifications such as -

1. We wouldn't care if it was a male.
2. We wouldn't care if it was a white person.
3. We wouldn't care if it was a heterosexual.
4. We wouldn't care if it was a cisgendered individual.

Are and remain total bullshit in this environment and any other whereby there's a gigantically skewed demographic. In the context of a forum filled with people who are by and large pretty much exactly like Billy Corgan in most regards, it's not the same as mocking, harassing or demonstrating prejudice towards women, non-whites, homosexuals or transexuals.

Huge and massively important distinction, it sucks that some people don't get it.


This is complete bull. When I first got here I thought Boombats was a girl. I never ever treated her any differently than I would treat any man!
lemur68 wrote:A bite from a Lu Zworis is also highly venomous.


I Joe 4 play.
User avatar
Luzwei
Present-day God
Present-day God
 
Posts: 9376
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Colonel Panic on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:32 pm

Ptommydski wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:Ptommydski has said it numerous times.

In discussions whereby the context was a male dominated environment like the Electrical Audio forums. The point being that in any situation whereby the power dynamics are dramatically skewed to favour a majority over a minority, you can't treat it like it isn't the case or you're compounding the issue.

"Male dominated environment" be damned. Amelia argued that we were sexist pigs for discussing "titty bars," and then called me a privileged, alpha male as if that's not sexist.

Regardless of the context of where we are, that's a sexist statement and deserves to be mocked as such.

Pointing out somebody else's hypocrisy doesn't make one an "MRA." This whole PC concept of universal "privilege/victim" duality is a load of bullshit. Everybody white and male is not "privileged" over everybody non-white and female. Everybody non-white and female is not by default "victimized" by anybody white and male. That's a completely false dichotomy.

Ptommydski wrote:Ergo, on this white heterosexual cisgendered male dominated forum, you can't claim that everything is always equal in the discussion or treatment of different races, genders or sexualities because it isn't.

Who's pretending everything is always equal? Not me.

Ptommydski wrote:In this environment (like in any other with similar demographic), acting like there is an equality between majority/minority groups is counter-productive. Equality is the desired end result, not how you get there.

I'm talking about actual equality of human beings, not cultural power constructs or the perception of equality or inequality between majority/minority groups.

Grouping people together and treating them differently based on the impression that they're disadvantaged does not do them any favors. It's pandering, and it contributes to perpetuating an unhealthy "victim complex," just like when Amelia makes the absurd statement that some women "have to suck dick" in order to get ahead in life. That statement is objectively untrue; nobody has to "suck dick." That some make that choice is a result of their own decision. Pandering to their victim complex by pretending their delusion is true is dishonest and detrimental to their own well-being.

Ptommydski wrote:Thus, the commonly used justifications such as -

1. We wouldn't care if it was a male.
2. We wouldn't care if it was a white person.
3. We wouldn't care if it was a heterosexual.
4. We wouldn't care if it was a cisgendered individual.

I have no idea what you're on about, with this "commonly used justifications" bit.

Ptommydski wrote:In the context of a forum filled with people who are by and large pretty much exactly like Billy Corgan in most regards

Speak for yourself.

Ptommydski wrote:it's not the same as mocking, harassing or demonstrating prejudice towards women, non-whites, homosexuals or transexuals.

Yeah but the difference has nothing to do with your enumerated litany of "commonly used justifications" (whatever that's supposed to mean). The harm comes from lumping people together into arbitrary classes according to superficial traits, and then falsely defining them in terms of stereotypes instead of letting them be themselves. That's how prejudice diminishes peoples' individuality and humanity. That dehumanization and emphasized "otherness" leads to their exclusion from common rights and privileges.
Last edited by Colonel Panic on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
All that glitters is not aluminum.
User avatar
Colonel Panic
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 17039
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:12 am
Location: The Internet

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Luzwei on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:53 pm

Don't get me wrong
Tommy's a nice guy
I like him just fine
But he's projecting
lemur68 wrote:A bite from a Lu Zworis is also highly venomous.


I Joe 4 play.
User avatar
Luzwei
Present-day God
Present-day God
 
Posts: 9376
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby geiginni on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:54 pm

Didn't you know, the best route to a level playing field is to skew the field hopelessly in the other direction.

That is social equity.

Our biases are superior to your biases because we hold minority biases.
User avatar
geiginni
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:33 pm
Location: Mediating the Strong Force

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Colonel Panic on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:56 pm

Tommy, let me ask you this: is it racist to treat all people of Asian heritage as if they're naturally better at math, or treat all people of African heritage as if they're better at sports?


amelia wrote:I love how it's white males defending their rights, hahaha

I love how you still don't have the slightest clue what we're even talking about.
All that glitters is not aluminum.
User avatar
Colonel Panic
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 17039
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:12 am
Location: The Internet

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby geiginni on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:57 pm

amelia wrote:I love how it's white males defending their rights, hahaha


Historically, those who don't stand up for themselves (referenced to no particular majority/minority group) tend to get stepped on.
User avatar
geiginni
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:33 pm
Location: Mediating the Strong Force

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Luzwei on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:58 pm

Colonel Panic wrote:Tommy, let me ask you this: is it racist to treat all people of African heritage as if they're better at sports?


they're not?
lemur68 wrote:A bite from a Lu Zworis is also highly venomous.


I Joe 4 play.
User avatar
Luzwei
Present-day God
Present-day God
 
Posts: 9376
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:13 am
Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Ptommydski on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:03 pm

Colonel Panic wrote:Pointing out somebody else's hypocrisy doesn't make one an "MRA." This whole PC concept of universal "privilege/victim" duality is a load of bullshit. Everybody white and male is not "privileged" over everybody non-white and female. Everybody non-white and female is not by default "victimized" by anybody white and male. That's a completely false dichotomy.

We're sort of talking at cross purposes here because I'm talking about the thread(s) in which you posited the unusual claim that I don't think that women or non-white people are capable of being sexist or racist respectively (which is a common, occasionally deliberate misreading of this concept) - those being the one about Amanda Palmer and the recent one about the Pitchfork Rapper. I'm not talking about this thread specifically.

My stance then and now is the same - in the context of this forum, people should be aware that if they belong to the majority demographic (as I've said - white, heterosexual, cisgendered males), they should think, act and post accordingly - especially when they are discussing subjects which fall outside of their own majority demographic and/or are talking to or referring to people who fall outside of their own majority demographic. This is precisely because there is an inequality based on the make-up of the environment.

Ergo, the common defences and justifications for when people (quite rightly) point out that people are using disrespectful or demeaning language towards people outside of the majority demographic are nonsense - hence why it's not the same thing to post about Billy Corgan being a toolbag on a forum dominated by people who are basically exactly the same as Billy Corgan as it is to talk about Amanda Palmer, Jessica Hopper, JD Samson or whichever momentarily topical female we're deriding on any given week. There's an important distinction because when people who represent what amounts to being the status quo of the forum pile in on people outside of the majority demographic, it alienates and discourages the pitiful handful of people who post here who don't fit into said category.

That was the total sum of my opinion. It's really sad when smart, ostensibly liberal adults don't understand what should be a given and then try to justify it to avoid having to accept that they're capable of being offensive/alienating/prejudiced. I like to think people here are better than that, which is why I continue in my attempts to drive this point home.
User avatar
Ptommydski
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7455
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:52 am
Location: UK

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Ptommydski on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:10 pm

geiginni wrote:
amelia wrote:I love how it's white males defending their rights, hahaha


Historically, those who don't stand up for themselves (referenced to no particular majority/minority group) tend to get stepped on.

I know it's not how you meant it but this is literally an MRA argument. It's basically a core tenement of the movement.

White males aren't going to be "stepped on" in the overwhelming majority of environments. There are comparatively few situations whereby a white male has to be defensive about his rights or worry about being oppressed etc. It's the "white history month" argument by another name.
User avatar
Ptommydski
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7455
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:52 am
Location: UK

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby geiginni on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:12 pm

Ptommydski wrote:
geiginni wrote:
amelia wrote:I love how it's white males defending their rights, hahaha


Historically, those who don't stand up for themselves (referenced to no particular majority/minority group) tend to get stepped on.

I know it's not how you meant it but this is literally an MRA argument. It's basically a core tenement of the movement.

White males aren't going to be "stepped on" in the overwhelming majority of environments. There are comparatively few situations whereby a white male has to be defensive about his rights or worry about being oppressed etc. It's the "white history month" argument by another name.


I understand now.

I'm deeply offended when music polls declaring "100 Most Influential Records" or "Most Important Recordings of All Time" are released, and then prove to be nothing more than lists of rock albums from the last 40 years.
User avatar
geiginni
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:33 pm
Location: Mediating the Strong Force

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Ernest on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:27 pm

Christ, all this thinking about other people's feelings makes me thirsty.

Subaltern studies ends where my white anger starts.
Marsupialized wrote:A bus will crash and there'd be three people stepping over injured children to get out saying 'fuck them' it's just how it is with people.
User avatar
Ernest
Master of Cunnilingus
Master of Cunnilingus
 
Posts: 12620
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: Past where they paint the houses

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Colonel Panic on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:30 pm

Ptommydski wrote:We're sort of talking at cross purposes here because I'm talking about the thread(s) in which you posited the unusual claim that I don't think that women or non-white people are capable of being sexist or racist respectively (which is a common, occasionally deliberate misreading of this concept) - those being the one about Amanda Palmer and the recent one about the Pitchfork Rapper. I'm not talking about this thread specifically.

My stance then and now is the same - in the context of this forum, people should be aware that if they belong to the majority demographic (as I've said - white, heterosexual, cisgendered males), they should think, act and post accordingly - especially when they are discussing subjects which fall outside of their own majority demographic and/or are talking to or referring to people who fall outside of their own majority demographic. This is precisely because there is an inequality based on the make-up of the environment.

OK... following you so far. You don't really believe that minorities are incapable of being racist. Then why do you imply that it's "sexist" of me to point out the hypocrisy of Amelia's asinine ramblings?

Ptommydski wrote:Ergo, the common defences and justifications for when people (quite rightly) point out that people are using disrespectful or demeaning language towards people outside of the majority demographic are nonsense

???

Ptommydski wrote:hence why it's not the same thing to post about Billy Corgan being a toolbag on a forum dominated by people who are basically exactly the same as Billy Corgan as it is to talk about Amanda Palmer, Jessica Hopper, JD Samson or whichever momentarily topical female we're deriding on any given week.

Bullshit.

Being female or black or Hispanic or whatever doesn't earn you a pass on getting called out for being an asshole or a gross fucking pig. That's ridiculous. Women are just as capable of being assholes as men are, and just as capable of being attention whores and gross, disgusting slobs as men are. Black people are just as capable of being greedy, power-hungry "Type A's" as white people are. American Indians are just as capable of being duplicitous scammers as people of European descent. Jewish people are just as capable of being careless spendthrifts as Gentiles. The reverse of those statements are true also, regardless of stereotype.

Nobody's defending actual racist or sexist language or stereotyping here. But you're wrong and not doing anybody any favors by arguing that it's somehow "fair" or "justified" to pander to all minorities because of some imaginary "power dynamic" or whatever. You're advocating dishonesty because you expect that people of demographic minorities are inherently more prone to butthurt feelings? That's just disrespectful.

Ptommydski wrote:It's really sad when smart, ostensibly liberal adults don't understand...

Image

You and Amelia can share your wet blanket together.
All that glitters is not aluminum.
User avatar
Colonel Panic
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 17039
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:12 am
Location: The Internet

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Boombats on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:41 pm

What's really rich is that for all intents and purposes, Colon Panic has Amelia set up as the perfect straw woman to validate his points. You two are a hell of an ass backwards tag team.

Amelia I don't want to fight with you but I wish you would leave this thread so Colonel Pants can stop using you to "prove" his "point."
Escape Rope / Blxck Onion / Black Mesa
warmowski wrote:Fire back, absolutely, always and forever no matter how much it blows Andy's mind.
User avatar
Boombats
Analingus Eggnog
 
Posts: 21209
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:31 am

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby subprime on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Colonel Panic wrote:Tommy, let me ask you this: is it racist to treat all people of Asian heritage as if they're naturally better at math, or treat all people of African heritage as if they're better at sports?


amelia wrote:I love how it's white males defending their rights, hahaha

I love how you still don't have the slightest clue what we're even talking about.


They're not naturally better at math or sports. They exist in a cultural context that encourages it in a different way.

also: some women like men with facial hair, some like men without it. Some men like women with pubic/arm/leg hair, some don't. I think neckbeards are super gross. I dont particularly care about pubic hair.
subprime
Perfect Picture of Wisdom and Boldness
Perfect Picture of Wisdom and Boldness
 
Posts: 3174
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby Ptommydski on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:01 pm

Colonel Panic wrote:Then why do you imply that it's "sexist" of me to point out the hypocrisy of Amelia's asinine ramblings?

I didn't say it was sexist, I said you used a bullshit image macro which was unnecessary and devalued the legitimacy of your otherwise decent points on the subject. Go back and look if you don't believe me.

Colonel Panic wrote:Being female or black or Hispanic or whatever doesn't earn you a pass on getting called out for being an asshole or a gross fucking pig. That's ridiculous. Women are just as capable of being assholes as men are, and just as capable of being attention whores and gross, disgusting slobs as men are. Black people are just as capable of being greedy, power-hungry "Type A's" as white people are. American Indians are just as capable of being duplicitous scammers as people of European descent. Jewish people are just as capable of being careless spendthrifts as Gentiles. The reverse of those statements are true also, regardless of stereotype.

I don't actually disagree with you but there are contexts and situations whereby saying the above - specifically when you belong to a majority demographic representing an overwhelming status quo - you run the risk of sounding and possibly being sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic etc.

Thus, when you have a forum full of of males spending pages and pages talking about what a unattractive, filthy attention whore a particular woman is, it looks bad and it begins to resemble a chorus or crescendo of prejudice - even though on an individual basis the reasoning might be sound enough, in the context of mass broadcast I'd totally understand why many people would see it and decide they don't belong here. If you could read my PM inbox you'd see that this has happened a lot.

Colonel Panic wrote:Nobody's defending actual racist or sexist language or stereotyping here. But you're wrong and not doing anybody any favors by arguing that it's somehow "fair" or "justified" to pander to all minorities because of some imaginary "power dynamic" or whatever. You're advocating dishonesty because you expect that people of demographic minorities are inherently more prone to butthurt feelings? That's just disrespectful.

People are indirectly, unintentionally justifying the perpetuation of potentially racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic language by misunderstanding the cumulative effect of a majority demographic dog-piling a representative of any of the minorities of the forum. What you characterise as "pandering" should be common or garden decency but unfortunately for whatever reason it doesn't work out like that. The power dynamic of a majority demographic is not imaginary, it would be easily demonstrated by a poll of the forum. Bit of a waste of time though, we all know what it'd say.

Colonel Panic wrote:Image

You and Amelia can share your wet blanket together.

Again with the lame image macros? Weak.

Also, I've said it recently but I'll say it again - I don't care what you call me. If being labelled a "wet blanket" is a consequence of trying to get people to be more courteous and thoughtful with their language then that's fine by me. I have and expect to be called worse because I'm deliberately challenging the status quo of the forum.

However, the reason I do it is because it means so much to me. It's one of the most important things in my life. I wouldn't have these discussions with my own family because they don't mean as much to me. Thus, when I see threads which are very evidently alienating and offensive or cheapen something which I hold incredibly dear, it really upsets me. When you get the odd sexist or transphobic thread, I feel like it reflects poorly on me because I put so much store in this place and the people who come here.
User avatar
Ptommydski
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7455
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:52 am
Location: UK

Re: place: Titty Bars

Postby kerble on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:24 pm

Hey everybody,

Shut the fuck up, already.

Locking the thread for a week. Go talk about something else.

I'm disappointed in all of you.


Fuck off,


Faiz
kerble is right.
SA | SF | FZ | SI | RD | DA | K | CP | T
User avatar
kerble
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 18991
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:30 pm
Location: Heartbreaker.

Previous

Return to Crap / Not Crap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests