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Either/Or: 70s Brit Punk or 80s US Hardcore

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

One is more important, which?

UK
46
50%
USA
46
50%
 
Total votes : 92

Postby muzorewi's daughter on Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:36 am

i find myself growing bored with most of the UK punk bands (sex pistols (although i never actually liked them), buzzcocks, joy division etc etc) with the exception of the fall and mekons (although i usually don't lump the latter into the 70s UK punk scene because they're so much more). 80s american 'hardcore' punk has minutemen, which means they win by default.
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Postby steve on Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:08 am

I'll make it meaningful:

Third World War v Stooges : US
This Heat v Television : UK
Sex Pistols v Ramones : US
Throbbing Gristle v Suicide : US
Crass v Bad Brains : US
Rudimentary Peni v Void : US
Flux of Pink Indians v Die Kreuzen :US
Pil v MX80 : UK
Gang of Four v Sonic Youth : UK
Mekons v Minutemen : US
Discharge v Black Flag : UK
Membranes v Volcano Suns : US
Joy Division v Gang Green : UK

Oh fuck it.
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Postby vockins on Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:24 am

Ranxerox wrote:Someone above dismissed the greatness of the Birthday Party, which is simply the airing of ignorance. Their is no subjectivity about this.


I own every Birthday Party record. They are a good band.

I would happily pitch my Birthday Party records in a fire if I were forced to choose between them and the Bad Brains.
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Postby Mr. Chimp on Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:32 pm

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:
The Fall vs. Void: Yanks win, 4-4



I have never heard this "Void". They must be the greatest band in The Universe if they are listed as winning over the Fall.

steve wrote:Membranes v Volcano Suns : US


This is an entirely unfair task of judgement. This match-up to me is more of a contest that goes 16+ innings at 0-0, and which is ultimately called on account of rain.
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Postby muzorewi's daughter on Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:49 pm

steve wrote:Gang of Four v Sonic Youth : UK


whoa whoa.

two great albums vs. 25 years of almost-always-relevant music?
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Postby same on Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:50 pm

tommydski wrote:
same wrote:Objectively speaking, I can't see how the Sex Pistols could lose to anyone on a punk list. I mean, they invented the shit.


surely you mean the ramones fellah.


I put the Pistols and Ramones at a tie. It's like arguing over "who invented calculus, Newton or Leibnitz?" It's pointless.
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Postby steve on Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:51 pm

muzorewi's daughter wrote:
steve wrote:Gang of Four v Sonic Youth : UK


whoa whoa.

two great albums vs. 25 years of once-relevant music?

FYP.
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Postby muzorewi's daughter on Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:56 pm

steve wrote:
muzorewi's daughter wrote:
steve wrote:Gang of Four v Sonic Youth : UK


whoa whoa.

two great albums vs. 25 years of once-relevant music?

FYP.


:lol:

still.
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Postby Johnny 13 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:15 pm

I have not been excited by Sonic Youth since Daydream Nation. Ganf of Four kickstart an erection everytime the iPod serves them up.

I will take the erection over "Star Power is a pretty great song".

I don't hate you for feeling different or anything tho. ^_^
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Postby muzorewi's daughter on Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:45 pm

haha, that's fine.

it has to be said though, gang of four 'evolved' into one of the worst bands of all time ca 1982/83.
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Postby NerblyBear on Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:36 pm

How can music be "once-relevant"? Music is a timeless art form, and, generally speaking, the bands I love are not seeking to make records that have as their chief interest the fact that they mirror the sociological aspects of a certain era.

I guess I could see how one could consider Sonic Youth "once-relevant" if you're talking about their novel approach to guitar tunings. That was something that hadn't really been seen under the sun until they came along (at least in the context of a rock band); though I may be wrong, and I welcome any other examples of that sort of thing occurring before Sonic Youth's advent. Of course, since the '80's, a number of bands, most notably Pavement, have utilized different tunings.

But I still go back to Sister and EVOL, and the music sounds just as fresh to my ears as it must have once sounded to people who grew up seeing them live. They truly were a unique band at that point.

Having said that, I do feel like they slipped badly for a number of years after those records. A Thousand Leaves, however, is a great album.
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Postby NerblyBear on Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:46 pm

[quote="steve"]I'll make it meaningful:


This Heat v Television : UK
quote]

What??!?
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Postby sleepkid on Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:02 pm

I think we've strayed a bit far from from the original "70s Brit Punk or 80s US Hardcore" question:

PIL? Sonic Youth? Television?

Motorhead vs. Winger: US
Cinderella vs. Nuclear Assault: Uganda
Sade vs. Charles Mingus: Pluto
Bow wow wow vs. Adam Ant: Burma
Daft Punk vs. Perrey and Kingsley: Dick Hyman

We should have about 4 or 5 other threads in dissecting this debate. See someone else has already started a "punk vs. post-punk" thread, which seems to be more about what this thread has disintegrated into.

It's hard to do. Pigeon-holing and subjectivity and what not...











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Postby Mark Hansen on Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:37 am

same wrote:
Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:The Fall vs. Void: Yanks win, 4-4


no

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:Sex Pistols vs. Bad Brains: Yanks win, 10-7


no

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:The Slits vs. Meat Puppets: Yanks win, 11-9


no


And how about PiL vs. Pere Ubu? I'd have to go with PiL.

Brits win.


I agree with the 1st three, But PiL vs/ Pere Ubu? That one's tough, but I think I would go with Pere Ubu.

Looking at the list again, I think I would give the Sex Pistols the edge over the Bad Brains, partly because HR (I think it was HR) turned out to be such a bigoted jerk.

I don't go out of my way to listen to either of them anymore, though.

I still like the 1st two PiL albums. I still like a lot more of what Pere Ubu has made, including "Why I Hate Women" which is excellent and right up there with anything else they have ever done.

I liked alot of American Hardcore at the time, and compared to examples of British punk at the time (The Exploited really really sucked big time, there were many Brit bands just as bad) most of it was better. Although there are plenty of examples of shitty American hardcore as well.

I do feel a lot of the British bands that came through had a more off-putting attitude towards there audience as well, whereas a lot of American hardcore bands came of more as regular people off the stage.

I do agree the whole scene ended up becoming very stale after a while.
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Postby Ernest on Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:54 am

If it's up to 70's English punk, and 80's (good) American hardcore, I have to go with the US.


steve wrote:...
Sex Pistols v Ramones : US
Throbbing Gristle v Suicide : UK
Crass v Bad Brains : US
Rudimentary Peni v Void : UK
Flux of Pink Indians v Die Kreuzen :US
Gang of Four v Sonic Youth : UK
Mekons v Minutemen : US
Discharge v Black Flag : UK
...


I gotta go with Throbbing Gristle over Suicide, though. I have to add

The Adicts vs. Misfits: US

Dead Boys vs. Dead Kennedys: US
Last edited by Ernest on Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LBx on Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:55 am

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:Buzzcocks vs. Husker Du: Brits win, 3-2


no no NO.

80's win.
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Postby LBx on Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:57 am

The Wipers anyone?

yesh...

essential.
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Postby itchy mcgoo on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:06 am

Skronk wrote:Dead Boys vs. Dead Kennedys: US


These are both US. Maybe Soft Boys vs. DK


The Brits win for me.

I'm selling a bunch of hardcore garbage now to finance future purchases of Brit stuff to fill in the gaps. When I was going through my singles, most of the hardcore ones made me cringe. But the Brit shit had me at the turntable until about 2 last night.

More melodic, less testosterone.
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Postby dirtbleachd on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:15 am

steve wrote:
Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:If The Birthday Party recorded a single bad song, I have not heard it. They are, after The Stooges, the second greatest rock band of all time.

You really do need to hear a couple of the Jesus Lizard's albums.


My dear friend Ace turned me on to the Jesus Lizard. Fucking amazing. Goat and Liar. Two wonderful albums...can't decide which is better.
Last edited by dirtbleachd on Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ernest on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:19 am

itchy mcgoo wrote:
Skronk wrote:Dead Boys vs. Dead Kennedys: US


These are both US. Maybe Soft Boys vs. DK




Oops, my mistake. I was thinking of Sham 69 and wrote the Dead Boys.
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