home studios equipment staff/friends booking/rates for sale forum contact

Country: Israel

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Israel

CRAP
119
76%
NOT CRAP
38
24%
 
Total votes : 157

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Ranxerox on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:37 pm

It seems like a great many in Israel and the US and Europe and in the Middle East are willing to tolerate ethnic cleansing in Palestine/Israel.
Ranxerox
man forced to eat beard
man forced to eat beard
 
Posts: 1866
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:15 pm

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Anthony Flack on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:54 pm

Maybe not explicitly, but the ethnic cleansing (via extermination or expulsion) is happening, has been happening since Israel's creation, and sadly it's happening with the overwhelming support of the Israeli population, explicitly or not.

The situation is complicated, sure, but a lot of the complication stems from Israel being founded on a fundamentally wrong idea. I'm not saying Israelis are all monsters (or 95% monsters) but until people are willing to give up on this fundamentally wrong idea, then the monstrous consequences will continue.

I do appreciate your input on this, eliya. Do people in Israel seriously go around saying "things are worse for us than they are for the Palestinians"?
Anthony Flack
Present-day God
Present-day God
 
Posts: 9315
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:27 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Country: Israel

Postby eliya on Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:59 am

Anthony Flack wrote:a lot of the complication stems from Israel being founded on a fundamentally wrong idea.


I agree.

Anthony Flack wrote:I'm not saying Israelis are all monsters (or 95% monsters) but until people are willing to give up on this fundamentally wrong idea, then the monstrous consequences will continue.


I agree on this one too, but it's not easy to convince people that their country is a fundamentally wrong idea, especially when other countries were conceived in a similar manner. The difference between those countries and Israel, is that the people who live in those countries acknowledge that, and that those countries no longer occupy other people (sort of). Every time I bring colonialism to right wing Israelis, they immediately point to the US.

Anthony Flack wrote:I do appreciate your input on this, eliya.


Thanks.

Anthony Flack wrote:Do people in Israel seriously go around saying "things are worse for us than they are for the Palestinians"?


No, absolutely not. At least not the people I know, not even the ones who support Protective Edge, or the ones who think Israel isn't occupying. A lot of Israelis are myopic about it. They think, "this sucks and it shouldn't happen", regardless of what "it shouldn't happen" mean. I guess it's selfish, too. They also believe that the Palestinians got themselves into this mess, both short-term and long-term. The short-term mess is that the Palestinians elected Hamas, and that they (Israelis) believe Hamas is always the first to open fire. Long term is that the Arabs didn't agree to the UN decision from 1949 (for a good reason).

It'll be a long time before Israelis will be ready to accept the one state solution. Right now, most leftists, even those who are "Haaretz-left", support the two state solution. People on the left acknowledges the occupation, but I think they believe everything was fine up to 67. Change takes time.

Anthony Flack wrote:Maybe not explicitly, but the ethnic cleansing (via extermination or expulsion) is happening, has been happening since Israel's creation, and sadly it's happening with the overwhelming support of the Israeli population, explicitly or not.


I still think that ethnic cleansing is not accurate when referring to the situation over there. I agree with apartheid, but it's not exactly ethnic cleansing, I think. But I guess I'm splitting hairs.
User avatar
eliya
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7687
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Country: Israel

Postby simmo on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:33 am

The video of damage to Gaza here is insane and terrifying.
User avatar
simmo
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7633
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:45 am
Location: Sherwood, Nottingham, UK

Re: Country: Israel

Postby madmanmunt on Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:31 pm

eliya wrote:
Anthony Flack wrote:Maybe not explicitly, but the ethnic cleansing (via extermination or expulsion) is happening, has been happening since Israel's creation, and sadly it's happening with the overwhelming support of the Israeli population, explicitly or not.


I still think that ethnic cleansing is not accurate when referring to the situation over there. I agree with apartheid, but it's not exactly ethnic cleansing, I think. But I guess I'm splitting hairs.


Whatever it is can we have less of it?

Thanks, Israel!
Book of Leo, Chapter 19 Verse 46 wrote:The man thought that he knew the glory and the wrath wrought of the Stratocaster, but lo! He was corrected.

Let them measure my anus and see if it is dilated.
User avatar
madmanmunt
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4854
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:25 pm
Location: Bill Swansea

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Andrew. on Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:57 pm

simmo wrote:The video of damage to Gaza here is insane and terrifying.


Aid workers says that if there were no blockade and they had access to building materials
it would take 20 years just to rebuild the housing, never mind schools, hospitals, etc. Catastrophic destruction.

A couple days ago I finally watched the film 5 Broken Cameras (about non-violent resistance in the West Bank). You can stream it here. Incredible documentary.
User avatar
Andrew.
Heaven-Sent Hero
Heaven-Sent Hero
 
Posts: 6287
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 11:02 pm

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Clyde on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:14 pm

Andrew. wrote:
A couple days ago I finally watched the film 5 Broken Cameras (about non-violent resistance in the West Bank). You can stream it here. Incredible documentary.


I second this. Heartbreaking and enraging, but not without hope.
NewDarkAge wrote:Dialectics, mate. No easy answers.
Clyde
Saint Who Rules w/ Extensive Magnanimity
Saint Who Rules w/ Extensive Magnanimity
 
Posts: 2028
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:12 pm
Location: Life

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Ben Abraham on Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:19 pm

Ben Abraham
World's Ideal Leader w/ VersatileTalents
World's Ideal Leader w/ VersatileTalents
 
Posts: 3930
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:16 am
Location: New York City

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Anthony Flack on Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:59 pm

So this will come as no surprise to anybody in the UK, but Michael Gove is a colossal dick: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... a-conflict

Also, the New Zealand ambassador to Israel has been informed he is not going to be the New Zealand ambassador to Israel, for the crime of also being the New Zealand ambassador to Palestine. New Zealand's response has basically been "ok cool sorry bro".
Anthony Flack
Present-day God
Present-day God
 
Posts: 9315
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:27 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Country: Israel

Postby night_tools on Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:45 pm

Shower of cunts finally do something right and decent.
British Parliament vote to recognise Palestinian Statehood
You're a shit MD and I want my pizza money back.
User avatar
night_tools
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5392
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:32 am
Location: Solar Island

Re: Country: Israel

Postby night_tools on Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:58 pm

This momentous news is buried in the depths of the UK News page on the BBC news website, by the way. Not on the front News page nor the World News page. It's a fucking disgrace.
You're a shit MD and I want my pizza money back.
User avatar
night_tools
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5392
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:32 am
Location: Solar Island


Re: Country: Israel

Postby eliya on Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:35 am



Unfortunately, I don't know if that turd will be flushed this time either. Also, the way it works in Israel is that the winning party (and its leader who'll be the next Prime Minister) has to form a parliament with the other parties that received mandates in the elections. So what could happen is that one party could win the elections, but won't be able to form a parliament, so it'll go to the second best if they can form a parliament. The second best will most likely be Bibi, if he doesn't win.

That's what happened in 2009. Tzipi Livni won, but couldn't get enough of the winning parties to join here. Bibi did, so he won the elections without actually winning the elections.

It's been almost 20 years (when Rabin was murdered) since a prime minister held office for 4 years, until the end of his appointment. It's a bummer.
User avatar
eliya
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7687
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Andrew. on Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:49 pm

Israel turns off power to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in the dead of winter

This is radical, though it’s not unusual and something we’ve come to expect. But turning off the electricity in the middle of winter as blizzards sweep across the Middle East is nothing short of sadistic. The Los Angeles Times reports Israel cut the power to more than 700,000 Palestinians in two of Palestine’s largest urban areas


Rebuilding Gaza would take a century if Israel keeps blockade

The rebuilding of homes, schools and hospitals in Gaza could take more than a century to complete unless an Israeli blockade restricting imports of construction materials into the Gaza Strip is lifted, aid agency Oxfam said on Thursday.


CNN: Has Israel lost the Democratic Party?

"A Gallup Poll out this week underscored Tennessee Rep. Cohen's point. It found that the percentage of Democrats sympathizing with Israelis over Palestinians fell 10 points over the past year, to 48%, which Gallup pollster Lydia Saad wrote was "possibly reflecting the tension between Obama and Netanyahu."

Meanwhile, Republican approval of Israel has continued to grow. Eighty-three percent of Republicans supported Israelis over Palestinians in the Gallup survey. That number compensated for the steep drop in support from Democrats so that overall support for Israel among Americans remained steady.
The Democratic dip aligns with what many Democrats say is a growing pro-Palestinian streak within the progressive wing of the party, which is calling for U.S. leaders to be tougher on Israel and offer stronger support for Palestinian statehood.


Apparently 30 Democrats have vowed to no-show Netanyahu's speech to Congress, with pressure on Elizabeth Warren to join them.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/speech-fallout-warren
User avatar
Andrew.
Heaven-Sent Hero
Heaven-Sent Hero
 
Posts: 6287
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 11:02 pm

Re: Country: Israel

Postby numberthirty on Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:54 pm

It's one thing to throw a fit because protocol was ignored.

It's a whole other one to vote to send less gun money.
154 wrote:Are you in Voivod or something?
User avatar
numberthirty
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 19969
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:28 am

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Andrew. on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:11 pm

You're not wrong, of course, about continued bipartisan military support for what Chomsky has termed the longest and most vicious military occupation in modern history. Democrats are unprincipled creeps, as a point of fact. But there are clearly broader dynamics of waning legitimacy in terms of Israel and the grip of the Israel lobby. The legitimacy of the Israeli state project (of racist settler-colonial occupation and genocide) has crumbled dramatically in recent years, thanks to Palestinian resistance, Israeli horrors, and dogged international solidarity.

There's a concept that radical political activists use to think through strategy that is relevant here: the spectrum of allies.

Image
User avatar
Andrew.
Heaven-Sent Hero
Heaven-Sent Hero
 
Posts: 6287
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 11:02 pm

Re: Country: Israel

Postby numberthirty on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:45 pm

154 wrote:Are you in Voivod or something?
User avatar
numberthirty
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 19969
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:28 am

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Andrew. on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:10 pm

His refusal to meet is disappointing to those of us who have stood by Israel for decades


The Democrats are awful, but the broader dynamics at work signal a historic shift.

That spectrum of allies thing above is no joke.
User avatar
Andrew.
Heaven-Sent Hero
Heaven-Sent Hero
 
Posts: 6287
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 11:02 pm

Re: Country: Israel

Postby numberthirty on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:26 pm

I don't disagree with the opinion that a change is starting to take place.

However, this thing that is playing out in Congress feels like "politics" in spades.
154 wrote:Are you in Voivod or something?
User avatar
numberthirty
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 19969
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:28 am

Re: Country: Israel

Postby Andrew. on Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:53 pm

If you're going to troll, you can do better than this "poor little Israel" routine I bet. Israel has the fourth largest military in the world and it spent two months this summer pounding an encaged refugee population, killing over 1,400 civilians (about half of them children, according to the UN).

It's a racist state carrying out the longest and most punitive military occupation of the modern era. The call is simply for that to end, in accordance with international law.
User avatar
Andrew.
Heaven-Sent Hero
Heaven-Sent Hero
 
Posts: 6287
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 11:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Crap / Not Crap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], ErikG, Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 17 guests