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band: swans

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swans

crap
16
7%
not crap
194
81%
it all depends on whether jarboe is on the record
29
12%
 
Total votes : 239

Re: band: swans

Postby zircona1 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:07 pm

edit
- "Whatever happened to that album?"
- "I broke it, remember? I threw it against the wall, and it like, shattered."
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Re: band: swans

Postby ryantf on Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:09 pm

Michael Gira calls it "an awkward mistake" http://www.stereogum.com/1862310/swans- ... user/news/
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Re: band: swans

Postby J. Burns on Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:44 pm

ryantf wrote:Michael Gira calls it "an awkward mistake" http://www.stereogum.com/1862310/swans- ... user/news/


Man...
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Re: band: swans

Postby thelastrewind on Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:39 pm

That statement hurts him more than it helps him.

I was thinking about going to see him in Sydney next week, but I can't help but feel kind of gross when I think about going now.
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Re: band: swans

Postby rayword45 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:50 pm

The last time I heard the "an awkward mistake" case was Renard Queenston (who is a terrible gabber musician). The hardcore fans stuck by that argument, in the end his reputation doesn't seem to have been tarnished within the communities he's popular in. Sad, although this was a case of admitted guilt.

I also wanted to see Swans on their final tour but I feel kinda icky.
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Re: band: swans

Postby harpseal2 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:08 pm

rayword45 wrote:I also wanted to see Swans on their final tour but I feel kinda icky.


thelastrewind wrote:I was thinking about going to see him in Sydney next week, but I can't help but feel kind of gross when I think about going now.


As a Burzum fan, I'd be the first to say you should separate the art from the artist. Swans is still Swans, and Swans still has created and will create good music. It will still be a great live show, regardless of whether Gira did this or not.

ryantf wrote:Michael Gira calls it "an awkward mistake" http://www.stereogum.com/1862310/swans- ... user/news/


I still don't want to believe anything without evidence.
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Re: band: swans

Postby sulfur)addict on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:47 pm

"Art from the artist" does not work when you're paying them.

Steal and indulge in and critique whatever you want, but support is support.

Michael Gira is an incredible artist, but Swans as a project are completely dedicated to exploring the limits, frustrations, tension, and failures of modern masculinity. Power and violence and the most unerotic sides of sex and love play into those themes and the music. It's inherent. Cast in this light though, it's no better than a Woody Allen film; well-done, accomplished, honest, but ultimately the grossest side of bragging about shitty behavior.

Could not imagine seeing Swans right now without feeling like a voyeur to someone admitting to their crimes.

To each their own, of course, but count me among the disappointed.
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Re: band: swans

Postby nonstoptaco on Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:11 am

harpseal2 wrote:I still don't want to believe anything without evidence.

So don't. You already said you separate the art from the artist so you're entitled to continue to enjoy Swans music, or laugh at Bill Cosby jokes, or enjoy Woody Allen films, or whatever. Carry on as you see fit.

What you're not entitled to is "evidence," whatever you think that is. I guess the accused would have to somehow prove this private act was consensual, or didn't happen at all. The accuser, however, has a much greater burden expected of them--a rape kit, a medical examination, a police report, etc.

You can continue to listen to his music or this can sour you on it. Since you've already said that either way you're good, I'm not sure what you're looking for here. To feel better about that? It's one of those things that, I guess, since it's being played out in a public arena, you feel you're part of it. But you're not. Social media/online forums allow you commentary but...that's it.

"Evidence" has come up a lot in the comment section on FB. Where is it? Why didn't she go to the police? Weird how punk rockers are suddenly all about the police when someone in a band is accused of rape.

I'm not trying to indict Gira as a rapist, nor paint Ms. Grimm as a liar. I have no idea, and I never will actually know. I'm not saying I'm neutral here, just saying in terms of hard facts, what the internet seems to require with everything from rape accusations to mass killings, I don't have anything and I don't deserve anything.
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Re: band: swans

Postby Gas Station Carnivals on Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:15 am

#Kesha.

Does anyone know either party closely enough to make a judgement based of character? Or are all of your opinions pure conjecture based of the he said/she said?

I've spoken to Gira a few times, but added up it amounts to about two hours of conversation, I don't know the guy personally. Don't know Larkin Grimm from Adam. If someone does, I'd like their opinion.
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Re: band: swans

Postby rayword45 on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:14 am

A bunch of people who say they went to school with Larkin claim she's unhinged but intelligent.

However that is something I don't believe should factor in since the man basically admit to everything in a rape minus the rape.
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Re: band: swans

Postby sulfur)addict on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:29 am

"Judgment based on character" doesn't work.

Rapists don't fit into a character pattern, you can't spot one on the street. Same goes for rape victims.

Michael Gira could be the coolest motherfucker alive and it's still totally possible he did everything Larkin Grimm said.

Similarly, Larkin Grimm could be a fellow BPD patient (pure conjecture on my part) and have a history of spotty behavior, but that wouldn't mean the alleged incident didn't happen.

Something I've been turning over in my head since Gira posted that "awkward mistake" line is the notion that both believe they're telling the truth based on the same drunken incident. What a terrifying idea - a woman suffers from the trauma of a rape while a man believes he barely missed "consumating an awkward mistake."

I dunno. It'd be nice to listen to Swans right now, but I'm not quite there yet.
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Re: band: swans

Postby cerebralheadtrip on Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:46 pm

the part he conveniently left out is that she was passed out when the "awkward mistake" occurred
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Re: band: swans

Postby cerebralheadtrip on Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:40 pm

I have this statement to give in response to Michael's admission of guilt.
This is a perfect example of why we need to have education about consent. In a gentlemanly move he admits the act happened but cannot conceive of himself as a rapist. Thank you Michael Gira for your honesty. This is your truth as you remember it. Unfortunately, this was still rape. I said no to you many times before that day, begged you not to interfere with me sexually, even made it a part of a verbal agreement we had when I signed a contract with you. I asked you to promise that you would never have sex with me. You assured me that I could trust you. That is about as clear a NO as I could ever cry. I asked for this because I had had other experiences in my music career and I KNEW.

That night I was far too intoxicated to give you consent for any sexual act. The psychological effects of this betrayal were devastating. Even worse, when I finally confronted you about what you had done, you terminated my relationship with Young God Records, damaging my career and leading people to believe there was something wrong with me or my music.

In the end, this is about business. Art is my career. I have worked long and hard for this career, making incredible sacrifices along the way to continue to make music. The fact that a man in power can throw a women's life and work away like they are garbage, simply because she won't sleep with him, is an immoral injustice that happens to many, many women in music. I won't stand for it and neither should you.
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Re: band: swans

Postby harpseal2 on Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:33 pm

nonstoptaco wrote:
harpseal2 wrote:I still don't want to believe anything without evidence.
...


Excellent post, fmNonStopTaco.

However, I suppose my repeating of "I still don't want to believe anything without evidence" is more about how A. people are jumping the gun and declaring him innocent or not, which I think is wrong, and B. even if this is false, it could potentially ruin Gira's career. When I say evidence, I think I mean more "just waiting for something to be proven".
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Re: band: swans

Postby 154 on Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:41 pm

cerebralheadtrip wrote:the part he conveniently left out is that she was passed out when the "awkward mistake" occurred


Yeah, on top of being told NO many times prior to the incident to the point of even putting it into a contract (?).

Not looking good for Gira..
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Re: band: swans

Postby Johnny C on Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:09 pm

J. Burns wrote:
ryantf wrote:Michael Gira calls it "an awkward mistake" http://www.stereogum.com/1862310/swans- ... user/news/


Man...


I'd like to amend my previous emptyquote to "It happened: horrible"
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Re: band: swans

Postby honeyisfunny on Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:46 am

...even made it a part of a verbal agreement we had when I signed a contract with you. I asked you to promise that you would never have sex with me.


The fuck?
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Re: band: swans

Postby Marsupialized on Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:03 am

These are some seriously stunted ass adults, Christ almighty.
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Re: band: swans

Postby harpseal2 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:10 pm

Excuse me, fellow EA members, if I accidently sound like the most sexist piece of shit when asking this, because I surely do not mean to demean women or doubt the legitimacy of Larkin's story in any way...

But is it really rape if she said no and he stopped the second after, as she described in her story?

Once again I really don't mean to cause any offence by asking this.
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Re: band: swans

Postby Clyde on Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:20 pm

harpseal2 wrote:Excuse me, fellow EA members, if I accidently sound like the most sexist piece of shit when asking this, because I surely do not mean to demean women or doubt the legitimacy of Larkin's story in any way...

But is it really rape if she said no and he stopped the second after, as she described in her story?

Once again I really don't mean to cause any offence by asking this.


Let's say you and a friend went out one night drinking and ended up crashing in the same bed together. What if you then woke up with your friend's dick in your ass or mouth? If you said stop and he stopped would you think he had acted reasonably or would you feel violated regardless because consent had never been given or even asked?
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