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band: swans

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swans

crap
16
7%
not crap
194
81%
it all depends on whether jarboe is on the record
29
12%
 
Total votes : 239

Re: band: swans

Postby rayword45 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:18 pm

jimmy spako wrote:In my mind, that is the worst, sorry. "If you knew what I know..."

Just shut up about it if it is third-hand hearsay from your social circles, what are you hoping to acheive with it?


It's not even from my social circle, it's from people who claimed to know her. This is information that has been widely shared online. Someone asked a question, I answered it. Fuck your accusatory bullshit tone. "Brush with greatness?" Is knowing a rape victim a sign of greatness? You're looking for attack points in the most nonsensical way.

And I'm well-educated on rape culture, but if you have to "beg" someone MANY TIMES to not have sex with you in the name of art, you're doing yourself a great disservice. I'm not saying this makes Gira any less evil, oh no he's still a piece of shit through and through considering he basically admit to the crimes involved. But if someone has been REPEATEDLY creepy to you to the point where you feel endangered, common sense speaks miles here.

It's blatant fact that many, many women have been in the exact same scenario, and the complete lack of any moral quandary remains, but so does the fact that if this was a persistent issue, you're not only doing yourself a disservice by continuing to work with this guy but you're doing other women a disservice by not saying anything (yes, rape has very deep emotional consequences but nonetheless by remaining silent for so long you're allowing the rapist to go completely unpunished up until now. How many other women has Gira abused?)




Break for a different note, is anybody ACTUALLY doubting that Gira is completely guilty? The dude went from calling this a slanderous lie to saying it was an "awkward mistake" are you waiting for him to straight up go out and say "yeah I raped her" or something?
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Re: band: swans

Postby jimmy spako on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:24 pm

It's times like these that I am reminded why practically zero women seem to post here anymore.
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Re: band: swans

Postby rayword45 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:28 pm

Yes, continue to view that you are completely right, without responding to anything.
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Re: band: swans

Postby jimmy spako on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:30 pm

I am not going to respond to your post about proper etiquette in case of rape, no.
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Re: band: swans

Postby rayword45 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:32 pm

You seem so quick to condemn and to toss out strawmen.

It's not "etiquette", it's your own fucking well-being and safety at stake, as well as the safety of others.
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Re: band: swans

Postby spaceJam on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:46 pm

OK wtf is going on?
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Re: band: swans

Postby edventure on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:51 pm

spaceJam wrote:OK wtf is going on?


Marsupialized wrote:These are some seriously stunted ass adults, Christ almighty.
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Re: band: swans

Postby ERawk on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:26 pm

It's blatant fact that many, many women have been in the exact same scenario, and the complete lack of any moral quandary remains, but so does the fact that if this was a persistent issue, you're not only doing yourself a disservice by continuing to work with this guy but you're doing other women a disservice by not saying anything (yes, rape has very deep emotional consequences but nonetheless by remaining silent for so long you're allowing the rapist to go completely unpunished up until now. How many other women has Gira abused?)


Please, back this the fuck up with data and statistics and cite your sources (we need to know the reputability of these sources too), since this is objective fact. I would love to know how many women back out of these dangerous situations and how it has varied year to year. Also, the onus should be on the man not to rape to begin with, not for other women to report their abuse to others and be a warning beacon.

And sometimes the lack of an escape route is what keeps women from "getting out", "seeking safety" or "using common sense" or whatever dog whistle victim blame shit you want to throw out there.

Do you know the terms of Ms. Larkin's professional contract with Young God? Do you know what possible avenues she had to get out of the contract? Do you know if she had a second, regular job and her music income was just secondary income? How much money she would have to pay Mr. Gira if she wanted out? If she could pony up such money if it came to a monetary settlement to get out of a contract, if it was created in such a way? When it comes to binding, legal contracts, both parties have to reach a covenant for terminating such a thing. Look at the Kesha battle with Dr. Luke. She may be able to pay Dr. Luke a settlement for early termination but why the fuck would anyone want to pay money to an abuser? It's not as simple as quitting a fucking job at the Mall when you still live with your parents. I sure as shit could "take this job and shove it" back then.

The only non-retail/food service job I ever quit without anything lined up, I did so because the boss was a creep. Never made any remarks about my appearance or touched me (but did say some fucked up sexual shit about his wife or other women in general), but was controlling, abusive, had a temper, and I went through the proper channels voicing my concerns and asking for an assignment change. However, it was a small workplace and I was going against a rainmaker. I was under two people when I worked there and the other one was giving me more work than he was at the time but this was bothering him that I requested just to work with the one person (switching assignments in my line of work is not unusual, FWIW). The day I quit, he gave me a very abusive spiel about how he hired me, that "I belonged to him", and thus the only way I could keep my job is if I only worked for him. However, I only quit because I had ample money in my savings to live off of for months if needed. Had I not had that money, I would have put my head down and continued to work until I could give a two-week notice or waited until I was fired, dealing with an increasingly abusive boss.

Many women don't always have that means. I wouldn't right at this moment if I found myself in another situation like the one above. Besides, I've fended off countless creep ass men in some many goddamn countless scenarios (from very subtle, borderline innocuous to damn frightening) for the better part of 20 years. It's so par for the course, I'm amazed I'm not completely de-sensitized.

Love many of you in the meat space but when it comes to the 'nets, sometimes I debate if I should kick some of you in the nuts the next time we meet again.

And with that, I'm peacing out.

ETA: BTW, Gira's statement sounds like something he came up with without attorney assistance to me. Whatever attorney would not advise to keep their client's mouth shut other than a simple denial is total shit.
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Re: band: swans

Postby rayword45 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:31 pm

Oh my lord, when I said that statistic, I meant many women are abused, not that many women escape abuse or report it. I wouldn't make up complete bullshit, it is well-documented that most rape is unreported.

Am I really this fucking obtuse or are you looking for arguments?
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Re: band: swans

Postby Frank Tuesday on Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:17 pm

harpseal2 wrote:Excuse me, fellow EA members, if I accidently sound like the most sexist piece of shit when asking this, because I surely do not mean to demean women or doubt the legitimacy of Larkin's story in any way...

But is it really rape if she said no and he stopped the second after, as she described in her story?

Once again I really don't mean to cause any offence by asking this.


Anything before she says, "Yes", or after she says "No" is rape. Unless the "Yes" was under duress, and then everything after "Yes" was rape, too.
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Re: band: swans

Postby J_Temperance on Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:14 pm

Oh great, real life. Way to ruin one of my favorite bands. Fuck.
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Re: band: swans

Postby ldopa_chicago on Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:39 pm

J_Temperance wrote:Oh great, real life. Way to ruin one of my favorite bands. Fuck.


How do you think she feels!
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Re: band: swans

Postby J_Temperance on Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:47 pm

ldopa_chicago wrote:
J_Temperance wrote:Oh great, real life. Way to ruin one of my favorite bands. Fuck.


How do you think she feels!


Yeah, I knew someone was gonna say this. I'm not saying "oh noes the real world sucks because Gira is being accused by some woman, fuck her" I'm saying "fuck you world, even people you respect/admire/least expect to can do horrible things, now I'm soured on one of my favorite bands' discography because Gira was a creep to some poor lady".
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Re: band: swans

Postby Johnny C on Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:50 pm

rayword45 wrote:Am I really this fucking obtuse or are you looking for arguments?


stop posting
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Re: band: swans

Postby El Protoolio on Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:54 pm

rayword45 wrote:Oh my lord, when I said that statistic, I meant many women are abused, not that many women escape abuse or report it. I wouldn't make up complete bullshit, it is well-documented that most rape is unreported.

Am I really this fucking obtuse or are you looking for arguments?


I'm going with option "A". The only ones looking for arguments around here seem to be stunted ass adults.

Which one of you MRA geniuses want to tell us how men are actually raped more than women?

Johnny C wrote:
rayword45 wrote:Am I really this fucking obtuse or are you looking for arguments?


stop posting


Good advice rayworld, I'd take it if I were you.
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Re: band: swans

Postby Into the Void on Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:58 pm

Don't misquote me asshole I never said what's in your third quote. I said the opposite. You're fucking gross


It's times like this I love to remind everyone- this is the same guy who once told (one of the very few females left here) to "Die in a chemical fire cunt."

Quite the feminist.
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Re: band: swans

Postby El Protoolio on Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:00 pm

Into the Void wrote:
Don't misquote me asshole I never said what's in your third quote. I said the opposite. You're fucking gross


It's times like this I love to remind everyone- this is the same guy who once told (one of the very few females left here) to "Die in a chemical fire cunt."

Quite the feminist.


To be fair, she was a cunt. She was banned for being a cunt.

You sure do hold your little grudges a long time don't you little man?
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Re: band: swans

Postby rayword45 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:18 pm

El Protoolio wrote:Which one of you MRA geniuses want to tell us how men are actually raped more than women


Seeing how there is no winning I'll take the advice, but the last thing I'll say is I'm literally as far from some dumb MRA/RedPiller as it gets, and through the entirety of this I've never ONCE tried to say Gira was anything less than a guilty fucking asshole. The last characterization I'd like is that of a rape apologist since I have to deal with them on a daily basis and they are some of the most repugnant people out there.

AAAAND

El Protoolio wrote:To be fair, she was a cunt. She was banned for being a cunt.

You sure do hold your little grudges a long time don't you little man?


I actually have NO idea what this is talking about but it sure smells like hypocrisy. js
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Re: band: swans

Postby harpseal2 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:22 pm

jimmy spako wrote:making it abundantly clear to your somehow otherwise admirable but creepy mentor/teacher/boss/supporter that you absolutely do not want to have sex with them ever and you can only proceed with your business or creative partnership if they acknowledge and respect this wish. Of course you might not phrase it that way, but that seems to me to be a highly rational, up-front and clever way to approach this reality.


I find it very sad a woman has to actually tell her boss that she doesn't want to be sexually harassed. What a fucking world.

El Protoolio wrote:I'll believe any woman unconditionally who claims she was raped. I'll take her word she was raped because she said she was raped. No one is jumping the gun and you're defending a rapist. You're fucked in the head. Go away


That is a tad extreme though, isn't it? I really don't want to start shit but I really don't think "guilty until proven innocent" is fair, no matter how grotesque the crime is.
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Re: band: swans

Postby El Protoolio on Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:03 pm

rayword45 wrote:
El Protoolio wrote:To be fair, she was a cunt. She was banned for being a cunt.

You sure do hold your little grudges a long time don't you little man?


I actually have NO idea what this is talking about but it sure smells like hypocrisy. js


It's not hypocrisy. There was a troll here for a long time who ruffled many feathers. It was a woman and in a not very high minded moment I called her a cunt and told her to DIAF. I am not proud of it, I would be careful to not ever do it again and I even apologized to the board at the time for being so gross. But it happened and she got banned for being the troll that she was and life moved on and we've all since partied and laughed and had a good time here and IRL. For some reason it's been brought up here now by some anonymous stranger who doesn't care for me, who I had completely forgotten about until now and who I guess is trying to equate using that word with not giving women who claim to be raped the benefit of the doubt. Except that it's not at all equivalent nor relevant to the current discussion. I owned up to it years ago and it's buried here somewhere so it's not like I'm hiding behind something.

We all make mistakes and we all say things we wish we didn't. Oh well, life is hard. If I've misunderstood you, which is very possible, then I apologize but you and OE posts seem to read a certain way and so I told you what I thought. There has been worse all over the comments in news articles and on FB.

I know a few great women that I love and admire who have been raped and run through the ringer for trying to speak out about it. It's frustrating to see them have to struggle and be put on trial when they're the victims and I feel very strongly about it. This is a board where we play hard and we say mean things. Not giving a women the benefit of the doubt is bullshit and no amount of my use of the word cunt towards another person takes away from that fact.

I'm glad Into The Void cares more about trying to embarrass me then about the woman Michael Gira raped. Shows what great character the guy has. As well as what deep concern he has for women's Justice.
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