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Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

My allegiance lies with:

Fugazi
213
50%
The Jesus Lizard
213
50%
 
Total votes : 426

Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Parbuckle on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:36 pm

matthew wrote:I don't know what is comparable between The Jesus Lizard and Fugazi aside from the fact that they are both loud rock bands.

That's right...not "punk", not "hardcore", nor "post-hardcore'. Both are rock bands.

They're very much not alike in so many respects despite being so much alike in that they are rock bands.

Kind of a dumb Thunder Dumb.


So you're saying they were both loud non-punk non-hardcore non-post-hardcore rock bands. You could have added that they existed at much the same time (even played some shows together), are evidently liked by much the same people, and have so far generated 30 pages of debate and 400+ votes. There are plenty of thunderdomes out there that could be objected to on an "apples and oranges" basis but this ain't one of em.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Parbuckle on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:41 pm

Evin Relocation wrote:I'll take the bait: Both were aggressive bands of note who were active during the same time period, both were massively influential, and both were familiar to many of the same audiences at the time.


And it turns out that if I'd bothered to keep reading I'd have seen that somebody had already made my point for me. :oops:
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Parbuckle on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:46 pm

Ranxerox wrote:Both were bands that took a stab at updated post punk and were standard bearers for important indie labels with reach. Both had a presence on the 90s underground that was large enough to make their shows cultural events and both were bands that commanded enough loyalty and passion that they were each a sort of litmus test. I think it is a good thunderdome in that, for many, to choose one or the other is to clarify position.


I'll get me coat :oops:
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Ben Abraham on Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:05 pm

matthew wrote:I don't know what is comparable between The Jesus Lizard and Fugazi aside from the fact that they are both loud rock bands.

That's right...not "punk", not "hardcore", nor "post-hardcore'. Both are rock bands.

They're very much not alike in so many respects despite being so much alike in that they are rock bands.

Kind of a dumb Thunder Dumb.


Fugazi is very punk in that they totally rejected the existing paradigm of what it means to be a "rock" band. This is especially true considering at a time when they could have easily capitalized off the MTV/Major Label attention that heavy bands were getting at the time. There are no Fugazi music videos, there are no Fugazi at corporate festivals. I'm not saying that those are necessarily bad or evil, but it is a conventional way of operating a band. Fugazi never did any of that.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Bernardo on Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:33 pm

thought about it again and found my vote:

MUSIC:

High points: it's a tie, I love both bands equally for their strengths (which are very different, though both feature perfect ensemble playing). I like Goat and End Hits, Liar and Killtaker, Head and Repeater, all about the same. And I'm as sympathethic, though less enthused, about Steady Diet or The Argument as I am about Down. Both bands did great EPs, but Fugazi's were less redundant (no repeat tracks that I remember), and none were as weak as TJL's self titled one near the end.
Consistency: Fugazi, they released more music and none of it was as weak as the last third of TJL's discography. I don't really have any Fugazi to pair with Shot or Blue, which are records I never feel like listening to ever, never did.
Live shows: only saw Fugazi, who were great both times. TJL never made it here. I do assume there were better reasons to see Fugazi multiple times, as they (as far as I know) played different sets every single night, and were more adventurous with what went on musically, even if you saw the same song twice it could take very different turns. Which is linked to how they were also better at progressing, once TJL started branching out it did not work too good. Fugazi's take at "studio-as-an-instrument" was so very much better than TJL's tacked-on electronic affectations on Blue.

EXTRA-MUSICAL SHIT:

TJL were an awesome band, but Fugazi stands for far more than that. They didn't have to go to the lengths they did to prove what they did. But they did it, and now it's proven, it can't be un-known, you can't pretend you don't know it is possible. That means a lot, to see someone not compromise ever and succeed regardless.

Gotta vote for Fugazi.
Last edited by Bernardo on Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Teacher's Pet on Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:43 pm

Bernardo wrote: it can't be un-known


I know it, you know it, now the whole fuckin' place knows it.

Fugazi!
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby RikSmits on Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:11 pm

I'd take Fugazi by a mile, but I'd take Fugazi by a mile over almost any band.
Unless they change their infrastructure, they're not ready for a punk show.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby travis k on Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:41 pm

I love the Jesus Lizard. Love. But once Guy found his footing, everyone played an instrument. I think that has an effect on dynamics.
Must add that Yow was impeccable.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby matthew on Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:45 pm

Ben Abraham wrote:...[Fugazi] totally rejected...what it means to be a "rock" band. This is especially true considering at a time when they could have easily capitalized off the MTV/Major Label attention that heavy bands were getting at the time.


I agree. In that respect they weren't anything like The Jesus Lizard, among other respects.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby lewdjaw on Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:28 pm

I love TJL. They were sure as hell more fun. Humorous without being stupid. I listen to them more than Fugazi these days. They had better chops. Goat/Liar/Down was one hell of a run.

But Fugazi, not a bad record after Repeater. Great live even if it wasn't exactly a party. Progressed throughout their career. Quit on a high point. Plus, you have to consider the extra-musical element of how they operated at a time when bands were trying as hard as they could to whore themselves out.

Fugazi
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby dontfeartheringo on Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:24 pm

What's it going to take to get Fugazi to play shows again? Man, do we need that band now.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Redline on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:05 pm

it's a tie

My allegiance lies with:

Fugazi
208
50%
The Jesus Lizard
208
50%
 
Total votes : 416
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby travis k on Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:54 pm

Fugazi will play again in 2024. I made this clear recently in TJL thread when I couldn't get tickets because of bots/internet/contemporary consumption and had my little hissy fit.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby emmanuelle cunt on Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:57 am

294-294.

I can't vote, so I guess I have done it in the past, but I don't remember how I voted, goddman. I hope it was TJL.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Sprague Dawley on Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:13 am

Very internet-proud to break the tie in favour of JL, cannot believe this one is so close, Fugazi, apart from some of The Argument lp, have not aged well for me. After having thrashed both bands to death over the last 30 years or so it's Overwrought funless tinpot squall vs Chunderdome Churn Concrete Mixer Sound From Heaven
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby jakethesnake on Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:36 am

Jesus Lizard wins fairly easily to me. Fugazi are (were?) a great band but their music is dry and anemic, anthemic and preachy, dour and a bit dull. TJL were, if only for a few years, perfect rock'n'roll...
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby M.H on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:10 am

Whenever I recommend the Lizard to newbies, I always push Goat and Liar, never anything else. And I really dig Down and Shot.

Those are two phenomenal albums, some of the best rock music ever. But there's a clear peak where those musicians mastered what they were doing. This puts them in the top 5 percentiles of bands - but that was as far as they went.

But every person I introduce to Fugazi gets a different recommendation. Most of the time I tell people to listen to the whole catalogue. (I personally feel they did taper off a little bit at the end, but nowhere near to the extent of the Lizard.) There's very few bands who were that good for that long.

BTW, all the criticism of Fugazi being po-faced and preachy: there's plenty of emotionally devastating songs (esp 'Shut The Door') that deal with the human consequences and tragedy of what they opposed in interviews (though not, thank god, directly in their lyrics). They were never like Earth Crisis or Crass or Youth Of Today with their message. They respected their listeners' intelligence and the music always came first. And that’s why they win.
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Limmo on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:33 pm

i like two or three of fugazi's songs so i guess fugazi
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Re: Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Postby Defender on Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:11 pm

jesus lizard, eazy
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