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Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

Vote and debate.

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My allegiance lies with:

Fugazi
213
50%
The Jesus Lizard
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50%
 
Total votes : 426

Postby mr.arrison on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:12 pm

Jesus Lizard, by a fucking mile.
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Postby mattw on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:15 pm

I dunno, this is a pretty easy one for me. As much as I love tJL, they definitely have a few holes in their catalog.

Those Fugazi records hold up remarkably well. As in, there's hardly a bum song on any of them. I don't think I can say that about too many bands, but if it weren't for the two spotty Capitol records, I'd probably say that for the Lizard too.

Maybe if I had seen tJL live, my vote would be swayed. I did pay $5 to see Fugazi's show, which still ranks as one of the best ever. I forget what song they played before, but they went straight into "Arpeggiator" and it was nuts. For 5 bucks, I almost felt like I was ripping them off.
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Postby mr.arrison on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:23 pm

mattw wrote:there's hardly a bum song on any of them.

I like Fugazi alright.

But, there are some songs on Red Medicine that make me cringe.

Even the worst Jesus Lizard songs are just background ambience.

That said, listening to Fugazi's "Repeater" in the car after leaving Lollapoopuza 1 in Reston, Va. after Jane's Addiction started playing their dreadful post-Motley Crue Goth-metal was an eye opening experience i'll never forget. Even if I was being preached to, it all made sense.

Still, Jesus Lizard kicks Fugazi's ass.
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Postby mattw on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:33 pm

mr.arrison wrote:
But, there are some songs on Red Medicine that make me cringe.



Yeah, a few of those--not so great. It sounds like they were just messing around in the studio.

Still, how do you follow In On The Killtaker? I feel like they made up for it with End Hits, and to a lesser extent, The Argument.

As a [potential] last album, that's leagues better than Blue.
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Postby mr.arrison on Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:34 am

mattw wrote: End Hits, and to a lesser extent, The Argument.

As a [potential] last album, that's leagues better than Blue.


eh, somewhat true, but Fugazi has no Goat, no Liar and barely a Head/Pure in their output.

Blue, to me just sounds like Jesus Lizard doing RATT covers with some studio trickery. I am not kidding. It's wallpaper.

I hate Jim Kimball's drumming with TJL. With Laughing Hyenas +1. With Mule +2

With TJL, his drumming removes all the swing that made the first few TJL albums so special.
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Postby stewie on Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:57 am

The Jesus Lizard by a mile.

And Fugazi makes it a looong long fucking mile.



But still TJL.
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Postby richterbjack on Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:32 am

chet wrote:Marsup' is speaking only truth here.


Yeah.

When a band makes a point out of playing all-ages shows (and a universally known point, at that), I think it's perfectly reasonable for that band to make sure that it's the kind of environment where a kid's neck isn't going to be snapped. I've been to plenty of powerful shows where the crowd was able to enjoy themselves, even to the point of expressing it physically, without taking it out on other people.

I've also been to a few too many bad metal shows where I spent the whole time fending off some aggressive 300 lb goof, or seeing some 18 year old girl across the room getting hit in the face by some goon who's just "enjoying himself". For that matter, the spitting guy from Instrument was shown elbowing a kid right in the face not long before he ended up on stage with Ian.

Maybe it's not a discussion for here, but I just don't think that those guys' stance qualifies as "fascist".
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Postby holmes on Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:31 am

eliya wrote:
Marsupialized wrote:
Bradley wrote:
Tommy Alpha wrote:
tommydski wrote:
holmes wrote:fugazi border on annoying and vagualy fascist ironically.

:?:


For reals. WTF?


I voted for fugazi, but I get where he's coming from (I think). One thing I noticed watching the Instrument dvd was that, for a band founded on a punk rock ethos, they sure do spend a lot of time telling people what they can and cannot do...


you are way off base.

They ask people not to be violent and destructive at their shows because guess who is responsible if someone destroys a bunch oif shit at the venue? Or breaks their neck slam dancing? Who's the kids parents gonna sue?
They would be the target, they had no label or teams of lawyers or what have you to deal with such things. they did it all on their own, every step of teh way.
One real bad incident could have destroyed everything they had built and worked for.
So yeah, I'd ask people not to destroy shit and please don't crowd surf as well if I'm in that position. One show you can't jump on people's heads at, big deal, grow up.


I don't think it's the fear of being sued, I think it's just that they didn't want these unfortunate things to happen while they're playing. no? I mean, they seem like the most caring people ever.


i hate fucking slam dancing man. that had nothing to do with it. why on earth would that be the first thing that popped into your head after reading my post? im talking about all that DONT drink DONT smoke. its not that they just say they arent into it - that would be fine, in fact id give them major props. they go as far as to almost alienate you from their scene if you do. thats utter bullshit man. this is fucking punk rock - its for all different types of people. fair enough if you dont want drink or smokes at your, gig thats fine fine too. but to alienate people for wanting to buy that shit in their own time, and forcing that way of life on your (not all the time but often) very damaged-impressionable-young-probably-bullied fan base is bullshit. That side i am not debating the many other actually great things they have dont at all.

im with bradley on this one.
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Postby sphincter on Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:53 am

Both amazing bands but Fugazi are the better out of the two.
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Postby honeyisfunny on Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:35 am

holmes wrote:
eliya wrote:
Marsupialized wrote:
Bradley wrote:
Tommy Alpha wrote:
tommydski wrote:
holmes wrote:fugazi border on annoying and vagualy fascist ironically.

:?:


For reals. WTF?


I voted for fugazi, but I get where he's coming from (I think). One thing I noticed watching the Instrument dvd was that, for a band founded on a punk rock ethos, they sure do spend a lot of time telling people what they can and cannot do...


you are way off base.

They ask people not to be violent and destructive at their shows because guess who is responsible if someone destroys a bunch oif shit at the venue? Or breaks their neck slam dancing? Who's the kids parents gonna sue?
They would be the target, they had no label or teams of lawyers or what have you to deal with such things. they did it all on their own, every step of teh way.
One real bad incident could have destroyed everything they had built and worked for.
So yeah, I'd ask people not to destroy shit and please don't crowd surf as well if I'm in that position. One show you can't jump on people's heads at, big deal, grow up.


I don't think it's the fear of being sued, I think it's just that they didn't want these unfortunate things to happen while they're playing. no? I mean, they seem like the most caring people ever.


i hate fucking slam dancing man. that had nothing to do with it. why on earth would that be the first thing that popped into your head after reading my post? im talking about all that DONT drink DONT smoke. its not that they just say they arent into it - that would be fine, in fact id give them major props. they go as far as to almost alienate you from their scene if you do. thats utter bullshit man. this is fucking punk rock - its for all different types of people. fair enough if you dont want drink or smokes at your, gig thats fine fine too. but to alienate people for wanting to buy that shit in their own time, and forcing that way of life on your (not all the time but often) very damaged-impressionable-young-probably-bullied fan base is bullshit. That side i am not debating the many other actually great things they have dont at all.

im with bradley on this one.


Where the fuck did you get that from Fugazi? I'm not doing a name drop but I've been to a bar with Fugazi. They're regular guys, some of whom don't drink. I never get that I can't drink from their music or that I am somehow not allowed to do things. Apart from maybe beating up a gay person in a park but I would say that's something of a given that that's 'bad'.
And if someone wants to police their own show in order to make sure everyone in there has the best time they possibly can without people acting like they're on MTV then more power to them.
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Postby simmo on Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:37 am

Fugazi.

I have to admit that I completely agree with Marsupialised over the last two pages.

I like and admire both bands, but overall Fugazi do it more for me musically, and their wider contribution and influence on the independent music scene has been phenomenal (the question asks us to consider everything so I'm considering that).
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Postby Gramsci on Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:01 am

The Lizard.

Fugazi are great, but...
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Postby steve on Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:06 am

I think Fugazi win all non-performance/non-music battles here. They conducted themselves impeccably and treated everyone they dealt with generously. I totally loved hanging around with them, playing with them and seeing them play. Great, fantastic band. An inspiration, absolutely. Nobody ever delivered the goods in more arenas simultaneously.

That said, the Jesus Lizard conjured up a new kind of rock music, simultaneously uglier, smarter and more perverse than anything before it. They have no peers. As a band they were unique. As people, whatever, they were regular guys. They did some dumb and questionable stuff, played the wrong cards at the end, whatever. Their first five years are the best five years any band has ever had.

As much as bands like the Stooges and the Ramones meant to me as a kid, the Jesus Lizard ultimately mean more. They win.
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Postby SweetDaddyPatty on Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:50 am

I love Fugazi but they may be one of the most boring live bands I have ever seen.
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Postby Marsupialized on Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:51 am

SweetDaddyPatty wrote:I love Fugazi but they may be one of the most boring live bands I have ever seen.


Insane
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Postby J. Burns on Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:26 pm

Fugazi.

Fugazi never released a bum record in their entire discography. The Jesus Lizard released three (the first drum machine record, then the last two.) The fact that Fugazi's run was several years longer makes this even more impressive.

However, if this was strictly a fist fight, you'd be dumb not to put your money on the Lizard.

Also, if you've flipped through the Keep Your Eyes Open book or the Instrument DVD, there are many, many, many, shots with the Marshall and Park badges intact. I'd be willing to bet that they did in fact fall off over many years on the road. I've seen it happen with my own band's equipment.

I'm guessing that when Ian was describing his "just an amplifier and a guitar" philosophy, he was talking strictly about himself. Guy has never been shy about the fact that he uses pedals. Even then, the MXR Distortion and the Vox wah is um, three less pedals than I use, so what the fuck.

"DON'T drink?" "DON'T smoke?" Um. Wrong band, dude. What year is this?
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Postby a. james on Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:55 pm

this basically boils down to "goat" vs. "red medicine" for me.



"goat."


duh.
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Postby warmowski on Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:06 pm

Mac.

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Postby John Houlihan on Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:48 pm

that damned fly wrote:this basically boils down to "goat" vs. "red medicine" for me.



"goat."


duh.


C'mon, dude. In On The Killtaker is leagues better than Red Medicine. Birthday Pony? Fucking Birthday Pony?!
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Postby Marsupialized on Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:20 pm

big_dave wrote:
Dr. Venkman wrote:Fucking Birthday Pony?!


Never understood the dislike for that song. It's pretty funny, and I like the quiet bit towards the end.


It's not a bad song at all
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