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Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby nihil on Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:24 am

Evin Relocation wrote:REM.

Listening to the Smiths is like doing homework. REM at their best are really evocative and great and at their worst they just fade softly into the background.


Lame. Do your homework.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Evin Relocation on Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:37 am

Despite my giving to charity for the holidays, no, I will not be adopting a Down's Syndrome-stricken singer and attempting to understand the heretofore undiscovered richness of his milieu. I should note that I also don't "get" Bowie.

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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Nimrod on Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:19 pm

Ya know, for some reason I clicked on this battle of the woefully uninspired at the exact moment that Crazy Rhythm came up on the iPod.

They're both miserable. Feelies = Jangle-rama.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby fishingrhod on Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:46 am

The Smiths
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby BadComrade on Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:50 pm

Nimrod wrote:Ya know, for some reason I clicked on this battle of the woefully uninspired at the exact moment that Crazy Rhythm came up on the iPod.

They're both miserable. Feelies = Jangle-rama.


The Feelies would destroy REM, but they'd lose to The Smiths because the Feelies did too many fucking covers.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby gmilner on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:36 pm

tocharian wrote:Easy. The Smiths didn’t write “So. Central Rain.” Good luck finding a more piercing and forceful song about having to let someone go, or a lyric more devastating than “Go build yourself another home/this choice isn’t mine.”


Yes.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Richard on Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:04 pm

gmilner wrote:
tocharian wrote:Easy. The Smiths didn’t write “So. Central Rain.” Good luck finding a more piercing and forceful song about having to let someone go, or a lyric more devastating than “Go build yourself another home/this choice isn’t mine.”


Yes.


Saying Michael Stipe deserves to be in a discussion with Morrissey as far as
who's a better lyricist is downright silly, and it borders on fucking laughable, but fuck it you guys can listen to anything you want to.

We can all get along, right?


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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Get dog costumes on Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:24 pm

Richard wrote:
gmilner wrote:
tocharian wrote:Easy. The Smiths didn’t write “So. Central Rain.” Good luck finding a more piercing and forceful song about having to let someone go, or a lyric more devastating than “Go build yourself another home/this choice isn’t mine.”


Yes.


Saying Michael Stipe deserves to be in a discussion with Morrissey as far as
who's a better lyricist is downright silly, and it borders on fucking laughable, but fuck it you guys can listen to anything you want to.

"Meat is Murder" vs. anything on "Fables of the Reconstruction?" You are wrong.

Man, all the lyrics on that album are great. Gentlemen. Testify.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Ace on Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:51 pm

Richard wrote:Image


You just know something happened here! Seriously! I want the gossip!
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby holmes on Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:09 am

i dunno man its tuff... rem really suck now and the smiths are the most overrated band of all time.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:46 am

Are you people seriously praising Morrissey's lyrics?


Seriously?!?!


Have you not, you know, actually listened to them?

Some are passable, I guess, but . . . well, there's a reason why children write those lyrics on their binders. Let's let Mr. Morrissey speak for himself, shall we?

All men have secrets and here is mine
So let it be known
For we have been through hell and high tide
I think I can rely on you ...
And yet you start to recoil
Heavy words are so lightly thrown
But still I'd leap in front of a flying bullet for you

So, what difference does it make ?
So, what difference does it make ?
It makes none
But now you have gone
And you must be looking very old tonight


The devil will find work for idle hands to do
I stole and I lied, and why ?
Because you asked me to !
But now you make me feel so ashamed
Because I've only got two hands
Well, I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh


So, what difference does it make ?
Oh, what difference does it make ?
Oh, it makes none
But now you have gone
And your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight


Oh, the devil will find work for idle hands to do
I stole, and then I lied
Just because you asked me to
But now you know the truth about me
You won't see me anymore
Well, I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh


But no more apologies
No more, no more apologies
Oh, I'm too tired
I'm so sick and tired
And I'm feeling very sick and ill today
But I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh


Oh, my sacred one ...
Oh ...


That is atrocious high-school garbage there.

"I'm feeling very sick and ill today"?!?!? Wow--both sick and ill!

Good god. Stipe is hardly a great lyricist, but Morrissey was his generation's Dashboard Confessional.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:49 am

Actually, for fun, let's pick out the dumbest line in that song. I was about to suggest the "sick and ill" line was the worst, but that's only because I failed to notice this little gem of poetry:

"And your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight."
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Richard on Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:31 am

Wood Goblin wrote: Morrissey was his generation's Dashboard Confessional.


you found some clumsy lines in a song the he wrote when he was 24. You think I cant go find some slop that Stipe came up with? I mean we can do this all day.

Anyone who feels that Stipe is a better lyricist or songwriter probably hasn't listened to enough material of either band.

Or they couldn't understand Stipe's mumbly mumble and they're convinced he's saying something "deep".
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:33 am

I'm not saying Stipe is a good lyricist. I'm saying that Morrissey was a terrible lyricist.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby simmo on Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:36 am

Total no-brainer - The Smiths by a country mile and then some

Wood Goblin wrote:I'm not saying Stipe is a good lyricist. I'm saying that Morrissey was a terrible lyricist.


Silly bean!
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby sparky on Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:58 am

Lyrics, including some of the best ones, usually look stupid when typed out. Delivery and context is vital. Likewise, prettier, more poetry-like lyrics often sound mannered and over-the-top. One of my favourite lyrics

Neil Young wrote:And I saw you in my nightmares
But I'll see you in my dreams
And I might live a thousand years
Before I know what that means.


reads ridiculous to me. Keep smoking that pot, Neil... And in the context of the song, it rarely fails to lift me off my feet.

I never used to like REM or the Smiths. Today, the couple of Smiths records I have ("The Queen Is Dead" and "Rank") sound solid, whilst I still have little time for REM.

You might not like his style, but Morrissey's delivery is marvelous and completely appropriate. And in the context of the actual song, those lyrics quoted above are more than fit for purpose. I don't dislike Stipes mumble-mumble-whine, but they have never moved me, whilst Morrissey has, if only to share a certain melodrama or flouncy wit.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby joelb on Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:24 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:Are you people seriously praising Morrissey's lyrics?


Seriously?!?!


Have you not, you know, actually listened to them?

Some are passable, I guess, but . . . well, there's a reason why children write those lyrics on their binders. Let's let Mr. Morrissey speak for himself, shall we?

All men have secrets and here is mine
So let it be known
For we have been through hell and high tide
I think I can rely on you ...
And yet you start to recoil
Heavy words are so lightly thrown
But still I'd leap in front of a flying bullet for you

So, what difference does it make ?
So, what difference does it make ?
It makes none
But now you have gone
And you must be looking very old tonight


The devil will find work for idle hands to do
I stole and I lied, and why ?
Because you asked me to !
But now you make me feel so ashamed
Because I've only got two hands
Well, I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh


So, what difference does it make ?
Oh, what difference does it make ?
Oh, it makes none
But now you have gone
And your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight


Oh, the devil will find work for idle hands to do
I stole, and then I lied
Just because you asked me to
But now you know the truth about me
You won't see me anymore
Well, I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh


But no more apologies
No more, no more apologies
Oh, I'm too tired
I'm so sick and tired
And I'm feeling very sick and ill today
But I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh


Oh, my sacred one ...
Oh ...


That is atrocious high-school garbage there.

"I'm feeling very sick and ill today"?!?!? Wow--both sick and ill!

Good god. Stipe is hardly a great lyricist, but Morrissey was his generation's Dashboard Confessional.


I always assumed Mr. Moz was, as the English say, taking the piss. As in "atrocious high school garbage" on purpose to highlight the ridiculousness of these sentiments. But I don't know.

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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby The MayorofRockNRoll on Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:35 pm

Both bands evoke completely different things

The Smiths are kinda simultaneously lush and spindly sounding, and maybe evoke girls I liked in high school. Still, they were good for a drive from the suburbs into mid-town as a teenager.

REM evoked longer drives through more rural areas.

The kinda hooks REM wrote sound better with either some distortion or...I dunno, something. I don't have a lot of use for them. I kinda blame them a bit for Toad the Wet Sprocket and fat guys with goatees in berets in the mid-late 80s through early 90s.

I actually think Morrissey was being funny when he'd sing lines like if a double decker bus/smashes into us...blah-de-blah-de-blah

So, I'll give the Smiths this one. REM had a few good ideas kinda lamely executed.

And have you ever seen the documentary Athens, Ga. Inside/Out ? Stipe's sulky posturing is annoying as shit, as is the rehearsed false modesty of the better part of the other bands (exceptions- and bands that made this thing watchable- being Flat Duo Jets and BBQ Killers). Plus, so many of those other jingly-jangly Athens bands sported enough embarassing haircuts to make the choads in Decline II: The Metal Years look like...I dunno, dudes I'd almost rather have a conversation with.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby tommydski on Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:15 am

sparky wrote:Lyrics, including some of the best ones, usually look stupid when typed out. Delivery and context is vital. Likewise, prettier, more poetry-like lyrics often sound mannered and over-the-top.

Definitely.

'What Difference Does it Make' is a genuinely great pop song, helped in part by the Moz's enunciation.

Still, Stipe also wrote some ace lyrics and a few mega retarded ones here and there. However, as with Moz, the quality of the song ultimately determines whether or not he gets away with it.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Ace on Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:08 pm

The MayorofRockNRoll wrote:Stipe's sulky posturing is annoying as shit, as is the rehearsed false modesty of the better part of the other bands.


They learned it from him. I know people have said he's a nice guy, but seriously every time I see him on TV, or being interviewed, he literally makes me ill.
I was watching some documentary where he was saying that he was so SHY when REM started out, and that people somehow thought he was being charismatic because he was so "shy".
Sounds like someone like eddie vedder talking about how much he "hates fame".
barffff.

As far as Morrissey goes, I actually find him FAR less obnoxious than Michael Stipe. It's funny because even though personally he doesn't seem that bad - a bit delusional, perhaps - his fans are a LOT worse.
Also, musically, he's a lot more grating. Therefore, both are crap, but the Smiths moreso.
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