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Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Verdict?

Minor Threat
57
56%
Black Flag
44
44%
 
Total votes : 101


Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby iHateTheFloridaPanhandle on Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:57 pm

sawtooth wrote: Chuck Dukowski and that ugly primitive rumble he brought with his bass playing. that low-end power might have even made the "jazz fusion" stuff work.


Dukowski was important too, but from what I've read and seen from Black Flag shows is that he didn't practice much, he just went balls to the wall anytime he played. So from a technical standpoint Kira had more finesse, but Dukowski had more power. However, even if Dukowski was still in the band they would have still lost almost all of their punk roots because Dez wasn't there to continue the basic rule of "Lots of fast chords!"
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby sawtooth on Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:22 pm

iHateTheFloridaPanhandle wrote:
sawtooth wrote: Chuck Dukowski and that ugly primitive rumble he brought with his bass playing. that low-end power might have even made the "jazz fusion" stuff work.


Dukowski was important too, but from what I've read and seen from Black Flag shows is that he didn't practice much, he just went balls to the wall anytime he played. So from a technical standpoint Kira had more finesse, but Dukowski had more power. However, even if Dukowski was still in the band they would have still lost almost all of their punk roots because Dez wasn't there to continue the basic rule of "Lots of fast chords!"

the idea of flag breaking out of their punk roots but retaining that dukowski rumble-- that would have fuckin ruled.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby lewdjaw on Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:57 am

Flag took more risks, admittedly they didn't always pan out, but still.

Preslar became an A and R shill.

Also: Minor Threat sounds tame in comparison to Flag's most feral stuff. Minor Threat always seemed "safe." Black Flag, not so much.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby a leg plaster on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:16 am

lewdjaw wrote:
Also: Minor Threat sounds tame in comparison to Flag's most feral stuff.


I'd have to disagree with that solely because of how great and intense I find the song 'Filler' to be.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby Bill Swansea on Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:38 am

a leg plaster wrote:
lewdjaw wrote:
Also: Minor Threat sounds tame in comparison to Flag's most feral stuff.


I'd have to disagree with that solely because of how great and intense I find the song 'Filler' to be.


Flag never wrote a song more intense than "Guilty of Being White" or any of the originals on the In My Eyes record. Black Flag were too angsty, Minor Threat were just really pissed off.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby Ace on Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:47 am

black flag.

minor threat is close to perfect, but still... Black Flag.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby Mason on Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:51 am

I thought long and hard about this one for a few days.

If the poll was Nervous Breakdown / The First Four Years vs Minor Threat, Black Flag might have the advantage. As it stands, though, Minor Threat for sure.

Like I said in the Fugazidome thread, in an Ian Mackaye vs Anyone Else situation my vote's probably going to go to Ian.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby vogelscheuche on Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:52 am

grew up around DC. definitely black flag.

no offense to the minor threat folks, naturally.. but it's hard to take away from the extended rediculous work ethic of black flag, DEFINITELY the musical risks they undertook, and not to mention the sheer physical size of the country out west to overcome.

i dunno-- i can't even really see the guitar playing of lyle preslar as being nearly as explosive or just outright on the perimeters of control either. ginn's just incendiary, for lack of better word. love the minor threat for being what i see as an extension of rock and roll tradition... but greg ginn was just flying without a map in a LOT of ways... mebbe it's sloppiness- but whatever it is-- it's not as controlled, and i still kinda feel like a little kid who has no clue what a guitar does when i hear those records.

also-- roster nightmares. how in the HELL do you overcome them for a decade? my head hurts just thinking about it.

musically-- man.. i heart the minor threat, grew up on it, and have a huge place in my heart for both. as a younger kid-- i'dve voted MT for the sheer approachability of the music as well. but i respect black flag more by a pretty big margin just for the stick to-itiveness as a band, the inventive playing, and a rawness that's completely different from the east coast orderliness i grew up with.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby SecondEdition on Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:18 am

vogelscheuche wrote:grew up around DC. definitely black flag.

no offense to the minor threat folks, naturally.. but it's hard to take away from the extended rediculous work ethic of black flag, DEFINITELY the musical risks they undertook, and not to mention the sheer physical size of the country out west to overcome.

i dunno-- i can't even really see the guitar playing of lyle preslar as being nearly as explosive or just outright on the perimeters of control either. ginn's just incendiary, for lack of better word. love the minor threat for being what i see as an extension of rock and roll tradition... but greg ginn was just flying without a map in a LOT of ways... mebbe it's sloppiness- but whatever it is-- it's not as controlled, and i still kinda feel like a little kid who has no clue what a guitar does when i hear those records.

also-- roster nightmares. how in the HELL do you overcome them for a decade? my head hurts just thinking about it.

musically-- man.. i heart the minor threat, grew up on it, and have a huge place in my heart for both. as a younger kid-- i'dve voted MT for the sheer approachability of the music as well. but i respect black flag more by a pretty big margin just for the stick to-itiveness as a band, the inventive playing, and a rawness that's completely different from the east coast orderliness i grew up with.


I respect them for all those things too, but really - they wasted half their career on shit-metal. Black Flag was not even close to being a good metal band most of the time.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby vogelscheuche on Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:33 am

hrm.. shit metal?

well.. i dunno.. i guess i don't hear it, cause to me they're pretty antithetical to the clinical overprocessed control element of most metal.

they're kinda their own 'genre' to me-- and that's the clincher. i can't say i like a lot of the later records nearly as much.. but i still really dig the process of weeding out.. and i can't even begin to think of a record LESS metal than that...
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby Nina on Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:19 am

SecondEdition wrote:Black Flag was not even close to being a good metal band most of the time.


Perhaps that's because they weren't a metal band.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby Ford on Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:38 am

A slight digression:

One of the rooms at the studio where we practice was occupied night before last by some acquaintances of ours who had formed a pick-up band to learn up a set of punk rock classics of yore as the entertainment for the singer's upcoming 50th birthday. The guy who is singing hasn't done it hardly at all for the last twenty years or so, and hasn't been in an actual band for longer. He still sounded great, though. We listened to them for a bit through the wall while they were doing "Police Story," and "Jealous Again."

And that singer... was Ron "Chavo Pederast" Reyes.

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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby Nina on Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:58 am

Ford wrote:This ridiculous city can be okay from time to time. You can be going to get a beer out of the refrigerator in a warehouse on Clark Drive and bump into Chavo Pederast.


Is he still in Vancouver?
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby HOUSTON_M on Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:15 am

I don't want to vote on this yet.

I was thinking that one could draw a line from Black Flag to the sludge metal of Eyehategod, Buzzov•en, Grief (in stating this I do not mean to imply that these bands are greatly distinguished). Also a line between Black Flag and Swans can be perceived (though not, perhaps, one of unidirectional influence from the former to the latter). As well as GRUNGE.

From Minor Threat there is an obvious and acknowledged line of influence leading to Youth Of Today and Gorilla Biscuits (the latter, perhaps, are not terrible).

Minor Threat might be an inspiring and instructive example but I don't know if they are a useable musical influence.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby Ford on Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:29 am

Nina wrote:
Ford wrote:This ridiculous city can be okay from time to time. You can be going to get a beer out of the refrigerator in a warehouse on Clark Drive and bump into Chavo Pederast.


Is he still in Vancouver?


He's here. Lives in Burnaby, I think. I hadn't seen him in a real long time. He looks good.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby SecondEdition on Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:48 am

Nina wrote:
SecondEdition wrote:Black Flag was not even close to being a good metal band most of the time.


Perhaps that's because they weren't a metal band.


Right, which is why they weren't any good at playing it.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby sawtooth on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:07 pm

SecondEdition wrote:
Nina wrote:
SecondEdition wrote:Black Flag was not even close to being a good metal band most of the time.


Perhaps that's because they weren't a metal band.


Right, which is why they weren't any good at playing it.

i don't know about all that. "nothing left inside" has become my official "playing all the cool guitars in a music store pretending i'm going to buy something" riff.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby noise&light on Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:34 am

Black Flag means more to me.

Minor Threat were always undeniably great. But Black Flag has been more of a life soundtrack starting from when I saw them play with Suicidal Tendencies my sophomore year of high school. Wish I still had my bars tee.
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Re: Band: Minor Threat VS Black Flag

Postby dokazaado on Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:36 am

HOUSTON_M wrote:I was thinking that one could draw a line from Black Flag to the sludge metal of Eyehategod, Buzzov•en, Grief (in stating this I do not mean to imply that these bands are greatly distinguished). Also a line between Black Flag and Swans can be perceived (though not, perhaps, one of unidirectional influence form the former to the latter). As well as GRUNGE.



also a huge influence on Melvins, who are, you know, maybe the best rock band of the last twenty years.

But away from "influence" and all the weird baggage that might entail, for me it's always been Black Flag. While I appreciate the ferocity of Minor Threat, there's an out of control element to Black Flag that mirrors something inside me that makes their music seem more profound. Yes, they made a lot of shit records, but ultimately their best work touched me more deeply. I could get into a long spiel about self-destruction here, but I think I'll just save it.
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