home studios equipment staff/friends booking/rates for sale forum contact

Collective: Odd Future

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All

CRAP
153
67%
NOT CRAP
74
33%
 
Total votes : 227

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby roberto on Mon May 16, 2011 12:10 pm

Tyler wrote:"I'm not homophobic, I just think 'faggot' hits and hurts people."




Vampire Weekend wrote:"we're not racist , we just think 'nigger' hits and hurts people."


I wonder how the press would react to this??? hmmmm
Last edited by roberto on Tue May 17, 2011 10:53 am, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
roberto
secretary of the interior
secretary of the interior
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:39 am
Location: Location Location

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby roberto on Mon May 16, 2011 12:10 pm

.
User avatar
roberto
secretary of the interior
secretary of the interior
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:39 am
Location: Location Location

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby i am the smud on Mon May 16, 2011 1:46 pm

Tegan and Sara are beefing with Tyler:

Sara of Tegan and Sara wrote:As journalists and colleagues defend, excuse and congratulate 'Tyler, the Creator,' I find it impossible not to comment. In any other industry would I be expected to tolerate, overlook, and find deeper meaning in this kid's sickening rhetoric? Why should I care about this music or its 'brilliance' when the message is so repulsive and irresponsible?... The more I think about it, the more I think people don't actually want to go up against this particular bully because he's popular. Who sticks up for women and gay people now? It seems entirely uncool to do so in the indie rock world, and I'll argue that point with ANYONE.


Tyler's response:

Tyler, The Creator wrote:If Tegan And Sara Need Some Hard Dick, Hit Me Up!


Classy

Regardless of what you feel about Odd Future, whether or not they're original and their messages of violence and homophobia are well tread territory, you have to admit what they do is far more listenable than what Tegan and Sara are doing.
We are all Romans unconscious collective/We are all Romans we live to regret it
User avatar
i am the smud
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
 
Posts: 2400
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby Antero on Mon May 16, 2011 1:53 pm

Tyler's response was pitch-perfect.

Also, Sara is overlooking the swastika letterman jackets and the attacks on religion, and her suggestion that nobody is attacking him for his lyrics (like, aside from all over the place?) because of his race and class is my favorite incredibly awkward statement of white privilege of the day.
Is you crazy baby, I gots to grind
Antero
World's Greatest Lover
World's Greatest Lover
 
Posts: 11402
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 8:54 am
Location: Hustle City, CA

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby deep.BTUz on Mon May 16, 2011 1:58 pm

I can’t believe I agree with Tegan & Sara, but they’re right. The fact that he can get away with some of the things he says is both indicative of how far Gay right’s have to go in this country, as well as the subtle marginalizing racism of holding one group to a lower standard than the rest of society. If Tyler’s ‘creativity’ was being directed at say Jewish people he would be shut down quickly. (remember Professor Griff?). On the other hand his statements toward homosexuals would not be tolerated if he was not black. Can you imagine if a white rocker type said some of the things he said? Say Axl Rose basically was going off like that? Think society would be celebrating it? Doubt it. I’m all for free speech, but the lack of consequences this guy is enjoying (basically because he is Black) is counter-progressive.
Ice up, son
User avatar
deep.BTUz
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby i am the smud on Mon May 16, 2011 2:04 pm

deep.BTUz wrote:Can you imagine if a white rocker type said some of the things he said?


I know you specified rockers specifically, but what about Eminem? Or (ugh) Fred Durst? There is plenty of homophobia in white rap.

I think this issue goes a bit beyond race, I think it has a lot to do with what listeners find acceptable in rap culture itself.
We are all Romans unconscious collective/We are all Romans we live to regret it
User avatar
i am the smud
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
 
Posts: 2400
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby Bill Swansea on Mon May 16, 2011 2:15 pm

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... uture.html

So Earl is the son of a poet. Obviously.
big_dave wrote:Hark at this boy and his "we".

He was Welsh yesterday.
User avatar
Bill Swansea
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
 
Posts: 8706
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby deep.BTUz on Mon May 16, 2011 2:15 pm

i am the smud wrote:
deep.BTUz wrote:Can you imagine if a white rocker type said some of the things he said?


I know you specified rockers specifically, but what about Eminem? Or (ugh) Fred Durst? There is plenty of homophobia in white rap.

I think this issue goes a bit beyond race, I think it has a lot to do with what listeners find acceptable in rap culture itself.



I am unfamiliar w/ Fred Durst's work, but Eminem was eventually called to task somewhat. He had to bring out Elton John and go on 60 minutes etc. And that was back a while ago when the music industry was less economically ostracized and could be held more accountable by larger (financial) social structures than it can today.

I could agree that this is about 'rap culture' or whatever, but to think you can strip race from an argument about 'rap culture' seems impossible.
Ice up, son
User avatar
deep.BTUz
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby Antero on Mon May 16, 2011 2:19 pm

deep.BTUz wrote:If Tyler’s ‘creativity’ was being directed at say Jewish people he would be shut down quickly. (remember Professor Griff?).

This is true. I noticed that OF removed swastikas from their visual vocabulary as their profile increased; any sort of real or seeming anti-Semitism gets shut down very quickly in the music industry.

On the other hand his statements toward homosexuals would not be tolerated if he was not black.

This is absolute idiocy. First, as mentioned, there are few/no statements towards homosexuals, just overuse of "faggot."

Second, have you heard the sort of shit Eminem said back in the day? He wasn't just saying "fag," he was talking about killing gays and lesbians. How's he been doing, eh? Double diamond? The highest-selling rapper in history? Eminem sure was lucky that being black let him get away with saying all that stuff.

Or wait, I recall a bit of an issue with Axl Rose being homophobic and using "nigger" in a rather distressing way on G'n'R's second album. Boy, they really cracked down on him. Right.
Is you crazy baby, I gots to grind
Antero
World's Greatest Lover
World's Greatest Lover
 
Posts: 11402
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 8:54 am
Location: Hustle City, CA

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby Antero on Mon May 16, 2011 2:23 pm

deep.BTUz wrote:I am unfamiliar w/ Fred Durst's work, but Eminem was eventually called to task somewhat. He had to bring out Elton John and go on 60 minutes etc. And that was back a while ago when the music industry was less economically ostracized and could be held more accountable by larger (financial) social structures than it can today.

Eminem did a duet with Elton John after having already dropped the fastest-selling album in history, going platinum multiple times, and a full two years after his first major label solo album.

They don't even have first week numbers in for Goblin.
Is you crazy baby, I gots to grind
Antero
World's Greatest Lover
World's Greatest Lover
 
Posts: 11402
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 8:54 am
Location: Hustle City, CA

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby Antero on Mon May 16, 2011 2:26 pm

Bill Swansea wrote:http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/05/free-earl-sweatshirt-odd-future.html

So Earl is the son of a poet. Obviously.

Go back and listen to "Thisniggaugly."
Is you crazy baby, I gots to grind
Antero
World's Greatest Lover
World's Greatest Lover
 
Posts: 11402
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 8:54 am
Location: Hustle City, CA

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby Bill Swansea on Mon May 16, 2011 2:28 pm

Antero wrote:
Bill Swansea wrote:http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/05/free-earl-sweatshirt-odd-future.html

So Earl is the son of a poet. Obviously.

Go back and listen to "Thisniggaugly."

I'm playing the record now and yeah I just noticed. Cool.
big_dave wrote:Hark at this boy and his "we".

He was Welsh yesterday.
User avatar
Bill Swansea
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
 
Posts: 8706
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby deep.BTUz on Mon May 16, 2011 2:29 pm

Antero wrote:This is absolute idiocy. First, as mentioned, there are few/no statements towards homosexuals, just overuse of "faggot."

Second, have you heard the sort of shit Eminem said back in the day? He wasn't just saying "fag," he was talking about killing gays and lesbians. How's he been doing, eh? Double diamond? The highest-selling rapper in history? Eminem sure was lucky that being black let him get away with saying all that stuff.

Or wait, I recall a bit of an issue with Axl Rose being homophobic and using "nigger" in a rather distressing way on G'n'R's second album. Boy, they really cracked down on him. Right.


Oh, I think Eminem is the perfect example to bring up to demonstrate that it is about race. Eminem didn't express any sentiments about homosexuals that weren't said on eight million rap records released before and since he was called to task. 99% of those other rap records were made by black men. Their homophobia was met with a resounding critical silence. Sure it had something to do with how visible he was because of his almost unprecedented popularity, but yeah I think it had a lot to do with him being white.

Axl said 'nigger' once in one song contextually within a narrative and it made national news. Once. One mention. It was hardly well received by mainstream media.
Ice up, son
User avatar
deep.BTUz
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby i am the smud on Mon May 16, 2011 2:50 pm

deep.BTUz wrote:Eminem didn't express any sentiments about homosexuals that weren't said on eight million rap records released before and since he was called to task.


Performing with a famous artist on an awards show watched by million is hardly what I would call being "called to task". Eminem records still move big units (Recovery sold big time, 5.7 million copies worldwide AND it is also the biggest selling digital album of all time).

My point is, the only thing that Eminem can't get away with that Tyler can is saying "nigger". To say that Tyler's race protects him from being criticized for saying "homophobic" remarks is ignorant. Hell, The Beastie Boys made fun of gay people on their first rap album.
We are all Romans unconscious collective/We are all Romans we live to regret it
User avatar
i am the smud
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
 
Posts: 2400
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby deep.BTUz on Mon May 16, 2011 3:07 pm

i am the smud wrote:
deep.BTUz wrote:Eminem didn't express any sentiments about homosexuals that weren't said on eight million rap records released before and since he was called to task.


Performing with a famous artist on an awards show watched by million is hardly what I would call being "called to task". Eminem records still move big units (Recovery sold big time, 5.7 million copies worldwide AND it is also the biggest selling digital album of all time).

My point is, the only thing that Eminem can't get away with that Tyler can is saying "nigger". To say that Tyler's race protects him from being criticized for saying "homophobic" remarks is ignorant. Hell, The Beastie Boys made fun of gay people on their first rap album.



Oh, don't get me wrong, I support Tyler having the right to say anything he wants, but I agree with T&S, and am voting crap. I see no reason to celebrate this guy. I know he is young, and hopefully he will mature and eventually have something interesting to say, but especially in this moment in time, when America seems to just be beginning to realize that homosexuals are in fact people entitled to equal rights and equal respect, it seems utterly weird that otherwise progressive people are getting down like this. Crap.
Ice up, son
User avatar
deep.BTUz
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby sulfur)addict on Mon May 16, 2011 3:11 pm

Tyler, The Creator wrote:I'm not homophobic, you faggot.


Am I really in an entirely different generation than all of you? I totally understand this, and yet I have no justification for it. Nor do I feel I need it.


I'm glad Tyler's lyrics upset some of you. It shows that even the most hyped member of an awesome collective can dig under someone's skin, and that you are all thinking on your feet for when actual homophobia hits. Double win!

He's as serious about dismissing gays* as he is about raping women or killing everyone.


*edited because he's never hated gays, just dismissed fellow members of the collective as "faggots." As a joke. A fucking joke. Playing off of the real-hate of gays in hip hop music.
Last edited by sulfur)addict on Mon May 16, 2011 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kerouacian as fuck.

NewDarkAge wrote:why, the fuck, would you post zizek in this thread
User avatar
sulfur)addict
Perfect Picture of Wisdom and Boldness
Perfect Picture of Wisdom and Boldness
 
Posts: 3122
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:10 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby IDNG on Mon May 16, 2011 3:13 pm

Antero wrote:This is absolute idiocy. First, as mentioned, there are few/no statements towards homosexuals, just overuse of "faggot."


I bolded that. There are statements towards homosexuals. Including his response to T&S. And I fail to see the reasoning behind your trying to disconnect the word from its cultural meaning and your continual attempts to justify their homophobia or at least the appearance of. The word is loaded. It means what it means. It's not just a word.

The following post pretty much sums it up.

roberto wrote:oh ... and "the band aren't racist .. but just cause they think 'Nigger ' hits and hurts people." :roll:


How are the two any different? Which is what you are arguing.

I see no difference between racism and homophobia. None. Any attempt to justify either on any level is weak and betrays a level of ignorance or at least lack of thought or experience.

And I'm not trying to be a dick, I really would like to know what your rational is.

Like I said above. If the stuff doesn't bother you to hear then just enjoy the group. Just stop trying to justify the bigotry. It seems as if you are arguing the point so hard as to make yourself feel better about possibly being uncomfortable with them.

Oh and this made me chuckle...

Image
User avatar
IDNG
novitiate
novitiate
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:47 pm
Location: Not Providence

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby i am the smud on Mon May 16, 2011 3:24 pm

sulfur)addict wrote:*edited because he's never hated gays, just dismissed fellow members of the collective as "faggots." As a joke. A fucking joke. Playing off of the real-hate of gays in hip hop music.


This.

When The Ramones sang "I'm a nazi, baby/You know I fight for the fatherland", did anyone in their right mind sincerely think any of them were nazis? They were playing with the image of nazism, and downplaying it by turning it into a stupid joke.

I don't think Tyler is a genius when it comes to the content of his rhymes, but I also don't care. I like Tyler because his word play is unique, he has an interesting personality on the mic with a great flow and he comes up with some really funny lines. How can you not laugh at this:

"I'll crash that fuckin airplane that that faggot nigga B.o.B. is in/And stab Bruno Mars in his god damn esophagus/And won't stop till the cops come in"
We are all Romans unconscious collective/We are all Romans we live to regret it
User avatar
i am the smud
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
 
Posts: 2400
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby Bill Swansea on Mon May 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Hey remember that time John Lydon called the singer of the New York Dolls a faggot?
big_dave wrote:Hark at this boy and his "we".

He was Welsh yesterday.
User avatar
Bill Swansea
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
 
Posts: 8706
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Collective: Odd Future

Postby IDNG on Mon May 16, 2011 4:43 pm

Remember when the Ramones and Lydon examples were 35 years ago or so? Remember "Money for Nothing" almost 30 years ago with its "faggot" part that's now excised? Remember the Warner's and Tom and Jerry cartoons with the black stereotypes? Culture progresses. It's not static. And not yea or nay. We have a much deeper understanding now. If the LGBT community weren't treated like second class citizens maybe it would be different. And the Ramones and Lydon didn't put it on every album and all over their websites etc. And the Ramones lyrics are a far cry from what OF spews.

Even if they are trying to hold up a mirror or whatever they're doing an awful job of it.
User avatar
IDNG
novitiate
novitiate
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:47 pm
Location: Not Providence

PreviousNext

Return to Crap / Not Crap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests