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"Punching" a Nazi

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Video of Richard Spencer being "assaulted"

Something to be celebrated
62
43%
Something to be condemned
15
10%
Something to be suspicious about
11
8%
Should have punched him harder
48
34%
Who cares, that was yesterday or whatever
7
5%
 
Total votes : 143

"Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:28 pm

Because this issue is contentious (ie most everybody thinks I'm wrong), I've moved the discussion by request from the protest thread to C/NC and made a poll for some reason.

Original discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67453

phpBB [media]


So here we have neo-nazi shitbag Richard Spencer apparently being assaulted by a protester.

While most people in general have been celebrating this, me and a few other FMs have mentioned that this kind of thing, and celebrating this kind of thing, actually is completely counterproductive and plays right into this asshole's fucking hands.

Several FMs have responded with words to the effect that to not resort to violence at this time is simply complacent white privilige talking. I say fair enough: I'm certainly not the person to talk to when it comes to the fight for civil rights in America, so never mind me, let's see what Martin Luther King had to say about that. Response: "pfft".

Sorry Dr King, apparently nobody cares what you have to say about that.

Furthermore, FM numberthirty and myself also raised the possibility that this whole thing (which seems perfectly packaged to make Richard Spencer look reasonable and black protesters look dangerous) was actually staged by Spencer himself, and certainly that Richard Spencer is now doing everything he can to encourage this to become a huge meme (including giving interviews saying "I really hope this doesn't become a huge meme as I would HAAATE it if that happened").

Who shot this footage? Who released it? Who are these people? Have any witnesses to this event come forward? If this whole thing was made by Richard Spencer, then everybody who shares or remixes this footage is unwittingly working for Spencer to promote his agenda, while he sits back watching it trend and laughing his ass off at the stupid libtards.

Response to this argument has also been a resounding "who cares" with perhaps a dash of "don't spoil our fun". Well, I do care. I don't want to help Richard Spencer make the left look like a bunch of violent extremists and/or credulous idiots.

So there you go, here's a poll. Let's see how disappointed I get.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby seanurban on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:12 pm

Spencer was not an enemy I knew I had until Friday. Now I wonder why we haven't seen more of this. If you're going to spew hate, you should expect some in return.
I can't celebrate it though. It's cowardly. The attacker should identify himself if he is so noble. Unless it was a setup. I can see that too.
I am not advocating pacifism. Pisspig grandad gets a pass, for instance. There are many ways to fight. An anonymous sucker punch is usually crap.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:19 pm

Thanks Sean. I'd be interested for anybody in that video to come forward and identify themselves. Bystanders, dude with a sign, person conducting the interview...
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby dontfeartheringo on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:22 pm

Actually, Dr. King never condemned the struggle for justice undertaken by more militant groups. He said he fully understood it. "A riot is the language of the unheard."

Do I think that the State should be meting out violence against people based on their political statements? No, of course not.

But you understand how fascist thuggery works, of course, and that should be considered in this context: Some guys like Mr. Haircut up there say things like "We have to protect our race and our people from half-breeds, terrorist muslims, the Negro Threat, etc." and then when someone throws a bomb into a Sunday school, it's all "No one could have seen this coming," and "We can't be held responsible for the actions of a few extremists."

So, if someone from the Black Bloc chooses to take this Brown Suit at his word and stop tiptoeing around their plausible deniability clause, well, I'm not going to fucking CRY about it. If you want to shout down from your ivory tower that fascism should be allowed to compete in the marketplace of ideas and that it'll soon be washed away by a tide of Better Ideas, I think you're living in denial of history. Also, you're assuming that the Debbie Wasserman Schultzes of the world won't firmly place themselves between the person shouting Better Ideas and all microphones and say "ACTUALLY, you should ignore these Bernie Bros."

People who use liberal "tolerance" as a cudgel to condemn direct action can also fuck right off. People don't punch Nazis because they don't agree with them. They punch Nazis because they're fucking Nazis.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Adam Sr on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:24 pm

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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby 154 on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:26 pm

Not seeing the 'setup' here, even if he's being opportunistic about it now. Of course he's trying to make lemonade out of this.

I laughed the first time I saw it, but it's a mild 'celebration' at best. This dude will be about as historically significant as David Duke's political career and there's so much more at stake right now.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby circle_ruler on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:28 pm

dontfeartheringo wrote:People who use liberal "tolerance" as a cudgel to condemn direct action can also fuck right off. People don't punch Nazis because they don't agree with them. They punch Nazis because they're fucking Nazis.

Only one thing could have stopped our movement – if our adversaries had understood its principle and from the first day smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.

If you cannot convince a Fascist, acquaint his head with the pavement


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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby dontfeartheringo on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:30 pm

Adam Sr wrote:
phpBB [media]


"I know, but, like... " Like, you put that dude's face on the internet and expose him to the Upstanding American Citizens who do things like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg#Death

Fucking liberals, man.

"You're a criminal, man."

Yes, of course. The guy advocating genocide, though... his people are always going unscrupulously follow the law.

Maybe you guys aren't familiar with how this all works. You should read up on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens'_Councils
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby lieandswell on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:32 pm

I'm in the "condemn" camp. Violent responses to speech (even hateful speech) make it too easy for political opponents to demonize you and your message. Maybe it plays well with true believers, but you lose skeptical-but-reasonable people in the middle. It also contributes the general polarization and "bubbleness" we have going these days. I used to think these things were mainly an issue on the right, but this election cycle has shown me otherwise.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Adam Sr on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:32 pm

'He may be a Nazi, but you're a criminal!'

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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:50 pm

dontfeartheringo wrote:Actually, Dr. King never condemned the struggle for justice undertaken by more militant groups. He said he fully understood it. "A riot is the language of the unheard."


The charge I was responding to was the repeated patronising suggestion that the principle of nonviolent resistance is something that can only come from a bubble of white privilege and indicates that the person advocating nonviolence is not "woke". I say: take that up with Dr. King.

Of course I can understand why somebody would want to punch Richard Spencer. That doesn't mean it's a constructive thing to do. As should be obvious enough by the way he is now using that video to promote himself.

People who use liberal "tolerance" as a cudgel to condemn direct action can also fuck right off. People don't punch Nazis because they don't agree with them. They punch Nazis because they're fucking Nazis.


I DO NOT think his views should be tolerated. I think he should be turfed out of the marketplace of ideas.

I AM suggesting however that some people might punch neo-nazis because they're participating in a staged neo-nazi propaganda event. And if this is indeed neo-nazi propaganda then maybe it would be a good idea to think twice before distributing it.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:57 pm

dontfeartheringo wrote:"I know, but, like... " Like, you put that dude's face on the internet and expose him


No he didn't. No face was shown. No identity exposed. Still nothing to suggest that both of these guys aren't Richard Spencer's white supremacist buddies.

More information welcome.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Adam Sr on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:09 pm

The guy who uploaded the pursuit video seems nice:

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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Chromodynamic on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:16 pm

dontfeartheringo wrote:Actually, Dr. King never condemned the struggle for justice undertaken by more militant groups. He said he fully understood it. "A riot is the language of the unheard."

Do I think that the State should be meting out violence against people based on their political statements? No, of course not.

But you understand how fascist thuggery works, of course, and that should be considered in this context: Some guys like Mr. Haircut up there say things like "We have to protect our race and our people from half-breeds, terrorist muslims, the Negro Threat, etc." and then when someone throws a bomb into a Sunday school, it's all "No one could have seen this coming," and "We can't be held responsible for the actions of a few extremists."

So, if someone from the Black Bloc chooses to take this Brown Suit at his word and stop tiptoeing around their plausible deniability clause, well, I'm not going to fucking CRY about it. If you want to shout down from your ivory tower that fascism should be allowed to compete in the marketplace of ideas and that it'll soon be washed away by a tide of Better Ideas, I think you're living in denial of history. Also, you're assuming that the Debbie Wasserman Schultzes of the world won't firmly place themselves between the person shouting Better Ideas and all microphones and say "ACTUALLY, you should ignore these Bernie Bros."

People who use liberal "tolerance" as a cudgel to condemn direct action can also fuck right off. People don't punch Nazis because they don't agree with them. They punch Nazis because they're fucking Nazis.


Thank you, Patrick. You articulate things way better than I ever could.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:52 pm

Adam Sr wrote:The guy who uploaded the pursuit video seems nice:


Well it's no surprise that HE'S a neo-nazi. The question is whether the other guy is also a neo-nazi.

Chromodynamic wrote:Thank you, Patrick. You articulate things way better than I ever could.


Indeed. More than happy to take this further with Patrick. All thoughtful responses will be respectfully considered. We're all on the same side after all; nobody is defending the nazis here. We all want to see him go down.

I think it would be good if he did fake it up, because then he could be exposed and ridiculed for it.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Carl on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:59 pm

Good year for a KARP revival.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:05 pm

And "SOCIALISM OVER BARBARISM" and "WHITE LIVES MATTER TOO MUCH" both sound too conveniently like far-right dog whistles to me. Here come the lefties! What do they want? Why, to make America communist and tear down the white race!

Again, it could just be a coincidence that the two signs we see paraded around in the background just happen to function perfectly as far-right dog whistles.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Madman Munt on Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:14 pm

I'm curious as to just how much punching is ok to use on a Nazi? Until he's unconscious, until he has brain damage*, or until he's dead? Is punching a Female Nazi (if they have them) ok? Is punching a wheelchair bound Nazi (or rolling him down a hill with a busy street at the end) ok? Is it ok to stab a Nazi? Ok to shoot a Nazi with a gun?

Any other people who I disagree with that I can punch with impunity?

*Happened to a (non-Nazi, totally innocent) guy I knew who was sucker punched.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Madman Munt on Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:37 pm

I mean impunity from you guys. I'm really more interested in the idea that if the use of force is acceptable, how much is too much? Or is the punch mainly a symbolic gesture?

Anyway, this whole thing made me think of Michael Pollan's line about food, but repurposed:

Punch people, not too much, mainly Nazis.
Last edited by Madman Munt on Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:03 pm

It would be interesting to hear what those black people in the video have to say. Perhaps it might go something like this:

This white guy approached us [this would be the guy who later covered up his face and punched Spencer - maybe a couple others too], and said that a neo-nazi was giving an interview up the street. He had printed up some signs and he said he wanted to organise a protest and disrupt the interview and we said sure thing.

Now I'm not saying they will have a story like that. But, it would be interesting to hear if they do.
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