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Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:57 pm

YouTube 'spam' notifications promoting new Logan Paul comeback video criticised
Basically what BD was saying. YouTube sucks.

edit: now youtube has suspended paul's ad revenue, whatever that means.
Last edited by seanurban on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Madman Munt on Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:06 pm

Mason wrote:"I've spent hours watching him on YouTube" - more than zero people


I've spent hours reading his book. A thankless task. I'm doing the work so you all don't have to!

bishopdante wrote:I've now spent a good few hours investigating this Dan Pena guy


It appears my work ethic pales in comparison to FM bishopdante's. Salut!
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby bishopdante on Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:14 pm

My point was not that I have laboured at length, more that I have noticed that if you "take the bait" on certain sorts of content, particularly on YouTube... you get *more*.

If this then piques your interest to tunnel into something, to investigate it, the system will seemingly label you as a fan, and pummel you with yet more for months.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision." - Bertrand Russell
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:08 pm

Madman Munt wrote:
Mason wrote:"I've spent hours watching him on YouTube" - more than zero people


I've spent hours reading his book. A thankless task. I'm doing the work so you all don't have to!


Oh dude, nobody has to. Anything you learned in hours you couldn't have in five minutes?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Ranxerox on Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:21 pm

The interview with the blonde woman was pitiable. She was awful. So bad that she didn't give hm a chance to be good.

His followers seem unable to comprehend and then summarize anything that he produces that sounds particularly insightful, though some insights are useful and in line with 'the same old story of humanity trying to be the best that it can be.'

His videos seem weighed down by a lot of speculation and assumption.

He has apparently struck a chord with certain sectors. No one I hang around has ever mentioned him.

There is a lot of information and choice in the world, and lots more in the way of perspectives or lenses, which is nervous making for many as figuring out what is going on, fashioning a worldview and an attendant plan of action, is more and more difficult to pair with real world social and material success.

One of the most basic conflicts that come built in to the Western experiment, especially those dealing with constitutional governments and real attempts at meaningful democracy is the tension between egalitarianism and individualized, 'god-given' rights which center on property. The latter is, as a practical matter, guaranteed to erode the former while also stockpiling power - material and political egalitarianism does not survive without safeguards, and neither does inegalitarianism.

Natural is not in it. It is a matter of choice and structural privilege.

'Equality of Outcome' is not desirable as a matter of setting ends. It is also not generally what is being sought by champions of egalitarianism and it is not what is being fought by inegalitarian perspectives. A fairer system is what it being sought, and that means a system that doesn't allow too much stockpiling, so to speak.

Peterson's conversations about egalitarianism and 'SJWs' are shot through with such mischaracterizations and misleading juxtapositions.

His position on being told how to speak to others doesn't seem to be the same thing as his position on speaking with others. Fair enough. If he isn't accurately characterizing the Canadian Leg's recent moves, then, don't hire him as a lawyer.

Overall, meh. Not crap, but not just a little bit of junk, from what I can see.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Antero on Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:49 pm

Riff Magnum wrote:Also, pretty sure a guy like JP, who's spent his whole life in liberal academia, has a pretty good handle on what postmodernism and neo-marxism is.

"cultural marxism" is an anti-semetic conspiracy theory.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:30 am

Anthony Flack wrote:The more gender roles are relaxed, the more happy everybody generally seems to be.

Depends on what you like. I know this point came up in the man-bun thread and there was no consensus (or interest). Hard to be certain when half the world has never even confronted that question.
If we were to get to the point where anybody can accept any person of either sex in any social role, maybe nobody would have cause to hate their natural body any more.

Ideally yes.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:46 am

Ranxerox wrote:Overall, meh. Not crap, but not just a little bit of junk, from what I can see.


I'm going to take you to task here, because in spite of Peterson's preaching against things he can't define correctly and repeating antisemitic conspiracy theories, as well as questioning whether women should be in the work place, he's somehow become a 'meh' not crap because we don't want to stifle options - this is a HUGE PROBLEM. you realize this is the kind of reason Trump was elected, right? You're privileging the form of what's going on to such an extent that you're ignoring the straightforward content of what the man is saying, because powerful people are obviously coming down on him in such a clumsy way. In Trump's case, he was at least playing with this, Peterson is dead serious though.

I am NOT condoning no platforming - I think it's pretty bad, universally in fact. I AM saying that the impulse to accept the most ignorant, outrageous viewpoints out of spite for the influence of the most powerful is clouding people's judgment. I don't like the bias i see in the media, but does that mean i'm going to give a 'not crap' Breitbart???

In your post, you seem to be more angered by the idea that someone is trying to minimize the options and viewpoints in this world than what those viewpoints might be. I can entirely understand this point of view after watching that blonde woman interviewing him, etc. And yet you must recognize that the actual content of Peterson's argument - that there must be rules, and the world is in chaos because we don't know what they are - is entirely about limiting people's freedoms.

One of the most basic conflicts that come built in to the Western experiment, especially those dealing with constitutional governments and real attempts at meaningful democracy is the tension between egalitarianism and individualized, 'god-given' rights which center on property. The latter is, as a practical matter, guaranteed to erode the former while also stockpiling power - material and political egalitarianism does not survive without safeguards, and neither does inegalitarianism.

Natural is not in it. It is a matter of choice and structural privilege.

'Equality of Outcome' is not desirable as a matter of setting ends. It is also not generally what is being sought by champions of egalitarianism and it is not what is being fought by inegalitarian perspectives. A fairer system is what it being sought, and that means a system that doesn't allow too much stockpiling, so to speak.

Peterson's conversations about egalitarianism and 'SJWs' are shot through with such mischaracterizations and misleading juxtapositions.


This part of your post is extremely confusing, i'm not sure what exactly you are trying to say. I think that last part you're trying to characterize his argument? Can you clarify this?
I'm immediately suspicious whenever anyone summarizes anything according to "equality of outcome" vs "equality of opportunity" also because i don't think they actually know what they're talking about, those are simplified phrases. I think you're also saying it's a mischaracterization but again I'm not sure.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby kokorodoko on Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:26 am

Riff Magnum wrote:Also, pretty sure a guy like JP, who's spent his whole life in liberal academia, has a pretty good handle on what postmodernism and neo-marxism is.

He might, but the proof would be in his statements, and I have seen no such proof. We don't need to assume anyone is right, we can see that they are or we can see that they aren't.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:34 am

Likewise if there's any video of him making anti Semitic remarks please just post it here ...
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:36 am

Antero wrote:
Riff Magnum wrote:Also, pretty sure a guy like JP, who's spent his whole life in liberal academia, has a pretty good handle on what postmodernism and neo-marxism is.

"cultural marxism" is an anti-semetic conspiracy theory.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:58 am

Yes that is the accusation I was referring to. What's *he* said about Jews? I'm curious.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:08 am

seanurban wrote:Yes that is the accusation I was referring to. What's *he* said about Jews? I'm curious.


you can google it, you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKL3MsKRtJo

Not negative, but this does not matter to his listeners as you can see from the comments because all of humanity is "ethnocentric", which is not true, but hey this guy doesn't seem to care so much about that.

That bit about "if you're going to be a minority you should at least have the decency to fail" is pretty telling, imo. Also, the jews' "annoying proclivity" towards success. ugh.

The bottom line is do your actions/insinuations speak louder than your words? Are you going to sit there saying anti-Semitism is a terrible thing and all your friends are jewish, and then spend time talking about cultural Marxism? This is the substance of our culture today, what you insinuate. and i do, in fact, think Peterson knows what he's doing here.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:15 am

Saw the same video. Agree it wasn't negative. The question was the most racist part. Didn't read the comments obv. Don't want to catch aids.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:20 am

Again, how he squares setting up cultural marxism as the enemy while saying he likes the jews is a pretty big conflict, as is suggesting that the jewish ethnicity hasn't had the decency to fail. this is in fact nazi-like logic, with the idea of different competing ethnicities fighting for survival and the jews being craftier than others. The idea of ethnicity is extremely fluid and didn't even exist in its present form until about 150 years ago, so assuming that that it is humanity's ground-zero state is an outright lie, as is the idea that most jews, and even the jews as a whole, are successful. Some jews have been undeniably successful and affluent, but if you look at studies the ones who are not tend to be much poorer than non-jews, in fact.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:27 am

He could have mentioned the poor Jews who had bad luck but come on. That's everywhere. He was given the perfect opening to be anti Semitic and he turned it down. That's how it looks to me. If he's trying to hate Jews he's doing a piss poor job.
Any quotes? Anything?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:31 am

I have to say I don't know what you're looking for. He says directly that he likes jews and then spouts anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. Surely by now you've seen that people like Peterson and many others (like our president) rely more on subtext than straightforward quotes. There is a dissonance here and they are skirting the issue. How is this difficult to get? What exactly are you looking for?

Are you trying to say that what he says straightforwardly is going to prove more what he thinks than the subtext of things he said? That would be nice if what he was saying was not laden with subtexts and inaccuracies.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:40 am

I see what I see. We should hold him accountable for what he says. Hate can't hide forever. I'm in no rush.

Trump is a different story. He outright admits he's racist. He's not sophisticated enough to insinuate it.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:48 am

seanurban wrote:I see what I see. We should hold him accountable for what he says. Hate can't hide forever. I'm in no rush.

Trump is a different story. He outright admits he's racist. He's not sophisticated enough to insinuate it.



Yes, I hold him accountable for what he says, which are a lot of loaded statements. He didn't say women shouldn't be in the workplace either, he questioned whether it was a good idea. This is his M.O., he skirts around issues and his fans gleefully wait in anticipation. But if none of this is proof enough for you, well, I guess it says a lot what the threshold is for people these days.

Sad.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:55 am

If that's what anti semitism looks like today, they got some work to do.
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