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Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:59 am

seanurban wrote:If that's what anti semitism looks like today, they got some work to do.


No, this is what antisemitism looks like today:

Image

the point is, it's in the public eye at large. It no longer needs to be directly addressed in public because it's already there and out in the open. insinuations like this have, evidently, been legitimated enough at this point.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby kokorodoko on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:16 pm

seanurban wrote:If that's what anti semitism looks like today, they got some work to do.

In fact, far rights have been consciously doing this for a long time. Of course they know they cannot come out and blatantly say what they think, they know that they have to veil themselves in "politically correct" reformulations like this.

And it works perfectly, because as long as they do not explicitly say "I am a racist", others can continue to make apologies for them, even though the implications of what they say are exactly the same.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:19 pm

Look, I know from the thread title that some of you draw a line from those boy nazis to JP. It's lazy and uninformed. He denounces that shit whenever it comes up. If you've heard him talk about the columbine kids, he understands exactly what we are fighting against. Those losers represent the chaos he refers to in his book title. He's very passionate about that.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:25 pm

seanurban wrote:Look, I know from the thread title that some of you draw a line from those boy nazis to JP. It's lazy and uninformed. He denounces that shit whenever it comes up. If you've heard him talk about the columbine kids, he understands exactly what we are fighting against. Those losers represent the chaos he refers to in his book title. He's very passionate about that.


Maybe you should ask yourself why this keeps happening then.

Also, what are "we" fighting against, exactly?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:41 pm

GrantMcNeilly wrote:
seanurban wrote:Look, I know from the thread title that some of you draw a line from those boy nazis to JP. It's lazy and uninformed. He denounces that shit whenever it comes up. If you've heard him talk about the columbine kids, he understands exactly what we are fighting against. Those losers represent the chaos he refers to in his book title. He's very passionate about that.


Maybe you should ask yourself why this keeps happening then.
why what keeps happening? Nazi rallies or the discussion of them? I don't know either way. I just know he's against them.

Also, what are "we" fighting against, exactly?

Hate terrorism anxiety poverty impotence ignorance violence hell depression and nazis
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:53 pm

seanurban wrote:why what keeps happening? Nazi rallies or the discussion of them? I don't know either way. I just know he's against them.


No, why people keep asking him about what he thinks of jews and such. Why is it that this connection is being made?

Hate terrorism anxiety poverty impotence ignorance violence hell depression and nazis


You realize that at literally any time in history we could be talking about almost all of those subjects,right? In the 19th century, replace 'nazis' with communists and it would be the same thing. We cannot fight a "war against chaos", just like we can't fight a war against drugs or communism, these things are often side effects or extensions of human behavior, not big looming evil, um, plots by dark forces.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby kokorodoko on Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:54 pm

seanurban wrote:If you've heard him talk about the columbine kids, he understands exactly what we are fighting against. Those losers represent the chaos he refers to in his book title. He's very passionate about that.

No, he hasn't got a fucking clue. His guru thing is a perfect distillation of all the emptiness and superficiality that he rails against.

Every line I have seen from his "advice to the young" is no different from what you'll find in any dimestore self help book: How to get discipline, How to get better with women, How to become a successful consumerist subject. Things are fine pretty much the way they are, the problem is the "chaos", that is those annoying people shifting the stable sands your ideal society is standing on, the ones who are not "real, healthy men and women".

And the solution to this? The very familiar one: Kill any liberatory potential inherent in this disintegration of the old and familiar, and against it erect the tyranny and intellectual darkness of "tradition".
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:08 pm

Yeah I am not totally into gurus and self help. I just want him to answer bishop Dante's questions. While I wait for big dave to show up.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:13 pm

seanurban wrote:Nice try. Big Dave ain't coming back.


I'm curious if you think b_d would be defending Jordan, sean?

Ranxerox wrote:Natural is not in it


Cute

Grant is tackling this better than I can, but I'll add I'm generally pretty shocked at the passes people are giving to this obvious book huckster. Curious how much we must give public figures the "benefit of the doubt", not questioning for what reasons they are in the position in the first place, especially considering who is really championing this particular clown, and who he's choosing to associate with. People's defense of this guy take what he is saying at such face value, "But I love The Jews! I think evil is wrong!".

kokorodoko wrote:
seanurban wrote:If you've heard him talk about the columbine kids, he understands exactly what we are fighting against. Those losers represent the chaos he refers to in his book title. He's very passionate about that.

No, he hasn't got a fucking clue. His guru thing is a perfect distillation of all the emptiness and superficiality that he rails against.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Madman Munt on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:32 pm

I told myself I wouldn't post on this thread this weekend, but I'll try to stay comfortably off-topic.

I'm pro-self help. In fact, I think it's necessary.

Who is going to help you if you don't help yourself? Who the fuck else is going to help you anyway?

Have you ever had to deal with (or even worse, been) someone who wouldn't help themselves? How fun was that on a scale from one to ten? How many people spend their lives putting up obstacles for themselves until their entire life consists of climbing over them?

Gurus can suck it, but if someone can show me a better way to do something, anything, that's 100% NC.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Which is why we should be very critical of who are trying to take these roles, especially if people are listening, because life issues are complex, difficult to navigate, and things people say can sound one way, when really they are saying something else.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby kokorodoko on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Madman Munt wrote:I'm pro-self help. In fact, I think it's necessary.

Yeah I'm not all against it, not even those stupid books, they can be helpful. My point is, they don't, as a rule, offer anything fundamentally different from the present state of things. They will not teach you how to imagine alternative realities, merely how to better fit into this one.


EDIT: And all of a sudden this grey bar that says "rank: spammer" showed up under my name. I don't know what it means, but it doesn't feel good.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:48 pm

I think it's a forum in-joke, kokorodoko! It'll disappear once you make one more post.

kokorodoko wrote:They will not teach you how to imagine alternative realities, merely how to better fit into this one.


Yeah
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Madman Munt on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Twilight Sparkle wrote:
kokorodoko wrote:They will not teach you how to imagine alternative realities, merely how to better fit into this one.


Yeah


Nah. Usually it's people who can't imagine alternative realities where they are not a fuck-up, or to imagine their current one where they are.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Anthony Flack on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:40 pm

I'm immediately suspicious of any living person who is beloved by the alt-right. Because it's not hard to get the alt-right to hate you if you don't want their support.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby seanurban on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:42 pm

Twilight Sparkle wrote:
seanurban wrote:Nice try. Big Dave ain't coming back.


I'm curious if you think b_d would be defending Jordan, sean?

No I don't think so. But it was the way he approached the issues that I related to. Never took his opinion lightly.
Not that I'm fully defending JP either. Just trying to define him so we're all on the same page. (11!)

To my other point: self help = good. Self help books = overrated

Don't have time to address all points right away.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Madman Munt on Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:00 pm

seanurban wrote:To my other point: self help = good. Self help books = overrated


I'm gonna spin this off into another thread as I can't face talking about JP while I'm still reading his damn book.

Self-Help books that you have found to be helpful
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:07 pm

seanurban wrote:Don't have time to address all points right away.


For sure

Madman Munt wrote:
Twilight Sparkle wrote:
kokorodoko wrote:They will not teach you how to imagine alternative realities, merely how to better fit into this one.


Yeah


Nah. Usually it's people who can't imagine alternative realities where they are not a fuck-up, or to imagine their current one where they are.


It's my impression what's being talked about is something like this, Munt. I'm not sure exactly what your point is, but it's worth repeating that the world is fucked up and wrong, if you want a better direction for yourself, you have to imagine a place for this possible new person [that is different than the normal world], because [what is normal] is deadly and on fire. This very general concept, by the way, is the foundation of non-binary thinking, and I've already posted a video where Jordan, in no uncertain terms, wholesale discounts.

Funny he is brought up, because FM b_d actually had a lot of good points of the positive aspects of the binary system, and had thoughtful criticisms against gender neologisms, but never was he attacking trans identity the way Jordan has, which he has capitalized on to launch his new career.

Anthony Flack wrote:I'm immediately suspicious of any living person who is beloved by the alt-right. Because it's not hard to get the alt-right to hate you if you don't want their support.


Bing bong
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Madman Munt on Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:38 pm

Twilight Sparkle wrote:I'm not sure exactly what your point is, but it's worth repeating that the world is fucked up and wrong, if you want a better direction for yourself, you have to imagine a place for this possible new person where it would inherently not be normal, because the norm is deadly and on fire.


We might be talking about different things. I'm simply talking about people neglecting to fix their fixable fucked-up shit because they can't, or won't, imagine anything different. Happens all the time and destroys people's lives regardless of "the deadly and on fire" norm.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby bishopdante on Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:26 pm

Turns out the rationalwiki site runs a page on him, which contains some useful nuggets of info:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

______

It's not easy to make money online... but he's certainly doing so.

As of January 2018, Peterson had over 723 thousand subscribers and 38 million views on YouTube, 407 thousand followers on Twitter, 160 thousand likes on Facebook, and over 7,060 donors on Patreon.


Those are big numbers.

In April 2017, Peterson got rejected a grant request by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (SSHRC). This was the first time in his career that he was denied a grant funding. In particular, the grant that SSHRC has previously approved and funded, the last time in 2012, was for the largest amount ever awarded to a psychologist. Peterson interpreted this denial as a retaliation for his statements regarding Bill C-16.[40] Peterson requested a total of $399,625 from SSHRC for five years of research, stating that most of the research money was allotted to the “salary and tuition” of student researchers, with the rest going to research, travel expenses, and computer equipment.

In response to the denial, Ezra Levant, founder of The Rebel Media, spearheaded an Indiegogo campaign to raise $73,325, the first year's worth of funding, for Peterson’s research team, within a 30-day period. The Indiegogo project reached its goal in one day.

Currently, Peterson seems to funding its research entirely by its voluntary supporters on Patreon, making more than $50,000 gross per month in July 2017.


Under the "reactionary fans" heading, there is a succinct statement which covers his transition from an eccentric ex-harvard psychiatry professor to a large-scale Internet personality, and how much hotter and murkier the water is in the anarchy of globalised digital media and fully-automated big-data publishing:

On more than one occasion, Peterson has retweeted fans of his who were discovered to be alt-right or neo-Nazis.


His popularity with the right has led Peterson to be interviewed by a whole slew of famous anti-leftist stars, including Tara McCarthy, Sargon of Akkad, Stefan Molyneux, Dave Rubin, and Theryn Meyer.


That Molyneux YouTube personality I had the misfortune of being "recommended" the productions of years back, and it never failed to annoy. Use the dislike button.

McCarthy... never heard of her. Perhaps a relation of the famous Joseph? Hope not...

The rationalwiki site was kind enough to supply a fully scathing page for Tara McCarthy in order to avoid tickling the Internet into putting me in line for yet more headache-inducing auto-suggested spam by activelt searching for or 'consuming' any content https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tara_McCarthy:

Tara McCarthy is a white nationalist, anti-Semitic, homophobic YouTube vlogger who promotes racist alt-right political ideology on her Reality Calls podcast, whose goal is to "help make ethno-nationalist views more socially acceptable".[2] McCarthy wants to establish a white ethnostate, explicitly endorsing violence if necessary; she frequently co-hosts Brittany Pettibone's Virtue of the West podcast.[2] If you were looking for runon sentences, racial pseudoscience, and overt bigotry, you've found your gal.


Before 2015, McCarthy identified as a left-wing, vegan antinatalist (against human procreation) and a childfree movement activist; for example, she appeared on a video "Why I'm not Having Kids" discussing her veganism.[5] At some point in 2015 she changed all her views 180 degrees to argue for white females to reproduce more, while criticising antinatalism (and feminism), as well as becoming a racist and part of the alt-right politically. Her views also changed from pro-LGBT, to anti-LGBT.

”I started red pilling I think in 2015, but it took a good 18 months before I realized the political implications of race realism."


McCarthy claims that white people have a right to forcibly remove all non white people from the United States, with methods including both threatening and killing nonwhite people.[15][16][17] In response to the European refugee crisis, McCarthy stated that she hopes that "zero" migrants crossing the sea to Europe "make it alive".[18][note 1]

Ironically, McCarthy is not fully European but has some recent Indian ancestry. This has caused some in the white nationalist movement to disavow her as 'impure'.[19] In fact she is willing to self-deport if only pure Europeans were allowed to live in Europe:[20]

"If it did come down to it, and I had to live in India so that actual 100% Europeans could live their lives without being disturbed, on that principle, I would be willing to do that [self-deport]".


I'm pretty sure that in quite a few European countries views like that are considered a criminal offence... as it goes.

I don't like the rise of neo-fascist ideology, no. It seems to be growing, as the Internet is pumped full of divisive conspiracy theories and bizarre propaganda, and billion dollar web services pour petrol onto the flames in the name of "more traffic more traffic, disagreement and contention is traffic"... which could really be interpreted as high powered AI trolling... with political consequences.

I suppose that these pernicious far-right ideologies have been lurking in society for quite a while, and that all sorts of people invent all sorts of new ideological nonsense like they invent new slang words or new in-groups/gangs/scenes/tribes, but the worrying fact is that people with living memory of WW2 and first hand experience of the toxic realities of having to fight fully-armed totalitarian state fascism have become very rare, and the fear of (and illegality of) publishing fascist propaganda has given way to a race-to-the-bottom fully-automated mass-aggregator Internet mass media with no human editorial responsibility or ethical oversight... we are seeing some very sinister ideologies gain substantial visibility and traction. Hoped that such views and opinions were consigned to the depths of modern history? Seems not.

I mean... the worry is how few people have realised that the NWO/Illuminati bollocks is... very much inline with fascist propaganda from the '30s and '40s. Alex Jones is the tip of the iceberg.

The growth of the stuff like a cultural fungus post-Internet is bloody frightening, and not something to dabble with, or be found bobbing around like a cork "retweeting" neo-fascist sources, certainly, *especially* if you are a peer-reviewed academic specialising in clinical mental health.

"Sort yourself out?!".

I mean...

He authored Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief in 1999, a work which examined several academic fields to describe the structure of systems of beliefs and myths, their role in the regulation of emotion, creation of meaning, and motivation for genocide.


?!

______

I'm pretty sure that the list of academic research departments funded by patreon is pretty small... so in that respect he's definitely breaking new ground.

However, in terms of disclosing his funding sources, Patreon is merely the vehicle, the donors themselves may prove to be harder to identify, which might make official declarations of financial interest and funding source rather more vague than many prefer, and likely will impact his perceived respectability and credibility within the field of academic psychology.

_____

Could be quite interesting to have crowdsourcing for academic research, if it was done properly... *particularly* in the field of medicine, where many departments investigating "bad for business" agendas, such as environmental pollution, or non-pharmaceutical treatments typically have very little funding.

... in the case of Peterson's Patreon... crowdsourced funding of his research arguably really isn't being done properly, or transparently.
Last edited by bishopdante on Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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