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Band: Steely Dan

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Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Steely Dan

CRAP
92
39%
NOT CRAP
144
61%
 
Total votes : 236

Postby Angus Jung on Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:12 pm

The spelling of "Rikki" is a female spelling. Rikki's gender is never identified. "You tell yourself you're not my kind" is the most homo-suggestive line, but a guy could say that to a girl too. If you read Rikki as a girl, the song takes on an underage/jailbait aspect- actually it does even if Rikki is a guy. They obviously wanted it to be ambiguous.

In any case, the song is about a person trying to manipulate another person into doing things that seem really sleazy, and it's creepy as fuck. And millions of people have sung along to it. Par for the Dan course.

I don't actually enjoy listening to their music very much myself, but it doesn't make them any less brilliant.
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Postby ironyengine on Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:14 pm

hey nineteen.

no, really, hey nineteen.

come on.
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Postby Juche on Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:22 am

kerble wrote:The fact that about 50% of the population's skin crawls about the Dan:
NOT CRAP.


kerble and angus jung, excellent thoughts on Steely Dan. I find that among "indie"-identified people, about 97% despise them. Kerble's got it right, it's because of an utterly superficial cultural analysis. Steely Dan was brilliant until Gaucho, and even Gaucho is ok- though it introduces the dull metronomic 2/4 beat that has pervaded post-Aja 'dan. Just because their studio techniques have a lot in common with Toto doesn't make them equivalent.
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Postby Antero on Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:58 am

Every Steely Dan song I've ever heard starts off cool, but I stop caring about it long before they finish the song. I say Crap, with a high WF.
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Postby Mr. Chimp on Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:34 am

Can't Buy A Thrill Not Crap
Countdown to Ecstasy Not Crap
Pretzel Logic Not Crap
Katy Lied Not Crap
The Royal Scam Not Crap
Aja Not Crap
Gaucho Not Crap
The Nightfly (Fagen Solo) Not Crap WF 2
11 Tracks of Whack (Becker Solo) Crap WF 8
Kamakiriad (Fagen Solo) Not Crap WF 10
Alive In America Not Crap but not necessary
Two Against Nature Crap WF 6
Everything Must Go Haven't heard

This band is incredible....the second Fagen and first Becker solo records, not withstanding. Don't get me wrong, there are good points on both records - maybe combined and trimmed a pretty good record. But there's also some dreck and wank, and dangerously-soft-rock-like moments. On Two Against Nature the arrangements are still quite good, but the sounds are not. Perhaps a tad obsessed-over.

Does anyone have a report on Everything Must Go? Note to self to check it out.
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Postby tmidgett on Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:02 am

i like at least part of every album thru _gaucho_

so sleazy. very sleazy band. i think this band, they are maybe 10x as subversive as a band like the dwarves.

not crap

Basically, he says that conceptually they're similar to Pavement, but better.


sonically, both bands tended to round off the edges whenever possible. there's nothing truly jagged about pavement after about the first couple singles--even the very distorted moments are fuzzy rather than biting. and there was never, ever anything jagged about steely dan, in sonic terms.

but there the similarities end, i believe. pavement, they would never be so sleazy--sorta pedophilic and half-gay and misanthropic.
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Postby Mr. Chimp on Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:42 am

tmidgett wrote:so sleazy. very sleazy band. i think this band, they are maybe 10x as subversive as a band like the dwarves.


This, I think, is maybe my favorite musical correlative ever.


Nice. Fcuking nice. Salut Midgetttti!
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Postby Flaneur on Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:46 am

Don't forget F.M., Mr. Chimp!

And Tim nailed the sleaze factor that's there for better and worse.
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Postby Peripatetic on Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:39 pm

I could never get into this band. I know a lot of people who love them, but their music always kind of made me car sick.
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Postby Fancy Pants on Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:59 pm

Angus Jung wrote:The spelling of "Rikki" is a female spelling. Rikki's gender is never identified. "You tell yourself you're not my kind" is the most homo-suggestive line, but a guy could say that to a girl too. If you read Rikki as a girl, the song takes on an underage/jailbait aspect- actually it does even if Rikki is a guy. They obviously wanted it to be ambiguous.

In any case, the song is about a person trying to manipulate another person into doing things that seem really sleazy, and it's creepy as fuck. And millions of people have sung along to it. Par for the Dan course.

I don't actually enjoy listening to their music very much myself, but it doesn't make them any less brilliant.


I thought Rikki was Rickie Lee Jones. She was romantically linked to either Donald Fagan or Walter Becker - or maybe both. But either way, I agree with you about the meaning of it.

Check out Home At Last from Aja. Very cool song -- it's about an encounter with sirens. Now there's a story that has always been fantastically creepy, yet highly entertaining.
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Postby Brett Eugene Ralph on Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:16 pm

CRAP--unless you're a coked out, balding restauranteur.
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Postby 154 on Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:17 pm

CRAP--unless you're a coked out, balding restauranteur.


well said.

i'll admit to liking some of their catchier hooks, but their whole presentation is pretty disgusting. it's like they are trying to chase all the women out of the room with their music so they can molest little boys. i also think it's appropriate how often they are featured in stereo/hi-fi (read: male wank) magazines.
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Postby kerble on Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:07 pm

154 wrote:it's like they are trying to chase all the women out of the room with their music so they can molest little boys.


I'm pretty sure that's a NOT CRAP argument as well.

"How about a kiss for Cousin Dupree?"
so creeeeeepy.

so creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy.


I like that I've never been able to convince someone who isn't down with the 'Dan to ever like them. It's either you're born on board, or you're born to loathe 'em.


salut! Sleazy Dan.




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Postby n.c. on Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:15 pm

SD is a pretty big guilty pleasure for me.
numberthirty wrote:No one is giving Frankenstein's Monster a cup of booze just because they have shifted from a CD burner to an interface and a computer.
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Postby glynnisjohns on Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:02 pm

Steely Dan, shitting on the Eagles since '72.

I love you Steely Dan, your Fagenisms and Beckerisms and
Baxterisms, Carltonisms, Mcdonaldisms, Porcarroisms.
Steve Katz & Victor Feldman are pretty cool too.
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Postby placeholder on Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:50 am

I loathe this band more than most, and don't see their creepiness, misanthropy, or sleaze as particularly intelligent. It may be calculated (and it certainly is tiresome), but it doesn't make this bland music subversive or worthwhile to me in any way. Why not go all the way and heap praise on the Eagles or Poco?

CRAP. Zero waffle factor. These guys are not far below Aerosmith on my mental list of most hated bands.
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Postby Linus Van Pelt on Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:30 am

I'll have to say Not Crap, and I can't say why. I think Kerble must be right - I was born to dig the 'Dan.
Why do you make it so scary to post here.
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Postby Angus Jung on Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:11 am

placeholder wrote:I loathe this band more than most, and don't see their creepiness, misanthropy, or sleaze as particularly intelligent. It may be calculated (and it certainly is tiresome), but it doesn't make this bland music subversive or worthwhile to me in any way. Why not go all the way and heap praise on the Eagles or Poco?

CRAP. Zero waffle factor. These guys are not far below Aerosmith on my mental list of most hated bands.


Steely Dan's music is subversive. It is calculating. It is intelligent.

Comparing them to Eagles/Poco is to miss the point entirely.
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Postby tmidgett on Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:20 am

placeholder wrote:Why not go all the way and heap praise on the Eagles or Poco?


the eagles and poco aren't funny

steely dan is funny. on purpose.

that's just one reason

i wouldn't ever proselytize in favor of steely dan. i would do this for some other bands. this is not a reflection of the degree to which i like their music, for i like a lot of it very much.

their particular worldview just isn't one that can be foisted on people. either you can get into it or you can't. and i think it's fine if you can't.
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Postby Bernardo on Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:00 pm

Angus Jung wrote:Comparing them to Eagles/Poco is to miss the point entirely.


Yes. I wouldn't care much for the "subversive" factor, wasn't it for the fact that they do that while making music they clearly enjoy and believe in, to the best of their capacity. THAT combination sells me 100%.
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