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Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Riff Magnum on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:03 pm

Anthony Flack wrote:Actually a ribbon mic is probably too noisy.


Dude, show some respect for the seriousness of this thread. I mean c'mon, porcupines and lobsters and birds and shit. This is heavy shit. :P
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:16 pm

Riff Magnum wrote:postmodernism makes no sense... that sounds close enough to postmodernism to me. Please explain to me what postmodernism actually is... I don't think it really matters in the end.


Well alright then, glad that's settled.

Forty hours of metaphorical truth? Sounds like a good Buffy marathon...
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:18 pm

Riff Magnum wrote:Jesus, I gotta go point by point now? This is turning into a part time job. Well, Pretty much everything in that podcast revolves around shit we've touched on in this thread and honestly it's just plain interesting to listen to. Didn't realize I had to stay focused and "win" the argument. Sorry coach.


We're examining why you like a thinker whose ideas offend a lot of us. You are *trying* to make us seem like we're "overreacting" because that's what "SJW"s do. That's not why I did though. I asked you questions point by point, not to win an argument, but to find out why, exactly, you find Jordan Peterson appealing, especially because he's pretty clearly a loon, for reasons that have already been elaborated on in this thread.

I asked you about Dave Rubin more because of your attitude when talking about him - "you guys probably won't like this person" - this kind of assumption about PRF "groupthink", about liberal "groupthink", that is really self-serving and disingenuous. Again, I'm not trying to "win an argument" here. You are coming across as accusatory

So what, a person has to have 4 masters degrees in poli-sci to know what postmodernism is and how to spot it?


No but they should probably not go around calling it 'cultural marxism' which it doesn't have a whole lot in common with. In fact, given the suspicion that post-modernism has of structures, Marxism and postmodernism sort of seem at odds with each other, don't they? And this is why traditionally they've been treated as such. You didn't read the article i posted above, did you?

Isn't that part of the postmodern charm, that it can be endlessly co-opted and rearranged to fit anyones definition of anything and/or simultaneously rejected and/or not?


No, that's not postmodernism. Is this what you are worried about, though? moral relativism? Because that goes way back, way before "postmodernism". People were freaking out about this *at least* since the Reformation.

Like that last sentence, postmodernism makes no sense.


You do not know what postmodernism is. You think it is moral relativism.

You know you could Wikipedia it? Or read a book on it. What's more interesting though is that you're CHOOSING to listen to Jordan Peterson on it and NOT those other people. And this tells me you don't really care about postmodernism, you care about moral relativism. You are Peterson's target market.

There's been at least 6 examples here of regressive shit going down on college campus's that sound close enough to postmodernism to me.


Oh really? perhaps i missed it.

Please explain to me what postmodernism actually is and how Peterson is missing the mark on that definition and how missing the mark really adds up to anything important anyways.


Here, I'll post a link to that article again because this guy rebuts Peterson's argument better than i ever could: https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23 ... ules-life/
Or don't, I don't think you actually want to be refuted here. You like this comfy little place you've set up for yourself.

Or not. Every definition i've ever heard sounds like utter pseudo intellectual nonsense, so I don't think it really matters in the end.


God, fine, I'LL Wikipedia it:
a late 20th-century style and concept in the arts, architecture, and criticism, which represents a departure from modernism and is characterized by the self-conscious use of earlier styles and conventions, a mixing of different artistic styles and media, and a general distrust of theories.


THAT SOUNDS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD TO ME. What YOU have a problem is is with moral relativism and elitist discourse. why don't you SAY THAT and not TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU DON'T GET.


I doubt i can boil down the mans thoughts and feelings on being, faith, morality, and truth in a couple words. I guess I'll just try and fail. I don't think JP ever said this in his lectures but in my mind it might actually work okay as a summation.
There's this myth that porcupines throw their quills as a means of defense. They don't, but for some reason that false idea still persists to this day. If the world were divided into two groups of people: people who believe porcupines throw their quills and people who don't. The people who believe are still less likely to be hurt by the porcupine even though their belief is scientifically false. Porcupines can still fuck you up with those quills yo'!!
yeah, i fucked it up and it's kinda lame, but I like it.
As a lifelong atheist I like it and I liked jordan petersons 42 hour biblical series of lectures.


Ok, so have faith? What does this have to do with postmodernism? Marxism? How do you get from porcupines to communists? You know what, don't answer that. You really don't want to know, and you know why?

because you want a safe space.

:D
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Riff Magnum on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:19 pm

Twilight Sparkle wrote:
Riff Magnum wrote:postmodernism makes no sense... that sounds close enough to postmodernism to me. Please explain to me what postmodernism actually is... I don't think it really matters in the end.


Well alright then, glad that's settled.

Forty hours of metaphorical truth? Sounds like a good Buffy marathon...


LoL, yeah!!! Well, isn't that the point of postmodernism? That no-one really knows what it is? Maybe it was one of those "had to be there" movements.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Riff Magnum on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:28 pm

GrantMcNeilly wrote:
Riff Magnum wrote:Jesus, I gotta go point by point now? This is turning into a part time job. Well, Pretty much everything in that podcast revolves around shit we've touched on in this thread and honestly it's just plain interesting to listen to. Didn't realize I had to stay focused and "win" the argument. Sorry coach.


We're examining why you like a thinker whose ideas offend a lot of us. You are *trying* to make us seem like we're "overreacting" because that's what "SJW"s do. That's not why I did though. I asked you questions point by point, not to win an argument, but to find out why, exactly, you find Jordan Peterson appealing, especially because he's pretty clearly a loon, for reasons that have already been elaborated on in this thread.

I asked you about Dave Rubin more because of your attitude when talking about him - "you guys probably won't like this person" - this kind of assumption about PRF "groupthink", about liberal "groupthink", that is really self-serving and disingenuous. Again, I'm not trying to "win an argument" here. You are coming across as accusatory

So what, a person has to have 4 masters degrees in poli-sci to know what postmodernism is and how to spot it?


No but they should probably not go around calling it 'cultural marxism' which it doesn't have a whole lot in common with. In fact, given the suspicion that post-modernism has of structures, Marxism and postmodernism sort of seem at odds with each other, don't they? And this is why traditionally they've been treated as such. You didn't read the article i posted above, did you?

Isn't that part of the postmodern charm, that it can be endlessly co-opted and rearranged to fit anyones definition of anything and/or simultaneously rejected and/or not?


No, that's not postmodernism. Is this what you are worried about, though? moral relativism? Because that goes way back, way before "postmodernism". People were freaking out about this *at least* since the Reformation.

Like that last sentence, postmodernism makes no sense.


You do not know what postmodernism is. You think it is moral relativism.

You know you could Wikipedia it? Or read a book on it. What's more interesting though is that you're CHOOSING to listen to Jordan Peterson on it and NOT those other people. And this tells me you don't really care about postmodernism, you care about moral relativism. You are Peterson's target market.

There's been at least 6 examples here of regressive shit going down on college campus's that sound close enough to postmodernism to me.


Oh really? perhaps i missed it.

Please explain to me what postmodernism actually is and how Peterson is missing the mark on that definition and how missing the mark really adds up to anything important anyways.


Here, I'll post a link to that article again because this guy rebuts Peterson's argument better than i ever could: https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23 ... ules-life/
Or don't, I don't think you actually want to be refuted here. You like this comfy little place you've set up for yourself.

Or not. Every definition i've ever heard sounds like utter pseudo intellectual nonsense, so I don't think it really matters in the end.


God, fine, I'LL Wikipedia it:
a late 20th-century style and concept in the arts, architecture, and criticism, which represents a departure from modernism and is characterized by the self-conscious use of earlier styles and conventions, a mixing of different artistic styles and media, and a general distrust of theories.


THAT SOUNDS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD TO ME. What YOU have a problem is is with moral relativism and elitist discourse. why don't you SAY THAT and not TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU DON'T GET.


I doubt i can boil down the mans thoughts and feelings on being, faith, morality, and truth in a couple words. I guess I'll just try and fail. I don't think JP ever said this in his lectures but in my mind it might actually work okay as a summation.
There's this myth that porcupines throw their quills as a means of defense. They don't, but for some reason that false idea still persists to this day. If the world were divided into two groups of people: people who believe porcupines throw their quills and people who don't. The people who believe are still less likely to be hurt by the porcupine even though their belief is scientifically false. Porcupines can still fuck you up with those quills yo'!!
yeah, i fucked it up and it's kinda lame, but I like it.
As a lifelong atheist I like it and I liked jordan petersons 42 hour biblical series of lectures.


Ok, so have faith? What does this have to do with postmodernism? Marxism? How do you get from porcupines to communists? You know what, don't answer that. You really don't want to know, and you know why?

because you want a safe space.

:D


Coach I really do wanna know. I wanna be as smart as you coach, but I'm tired and I think I need to go to bed. No more confusing postmodernism with moral relativism though, I promise.
Yes, I assumed most of you would poo-poo the Dave Rueben Report and guess what.........you did!!! :shock:

Seriously, I'll read that article at some point in the morning when i'm not so delirious. You kept saying "read my article above" and I never saw any link or anything up there but more gibberish from me.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:33 pm

Riff Magnum wrote:Coach I really do wanna know. I wanna be as smart as you coach, but I'm tired and I think I need to go to bed. No more confusing postmodernism with moral relativism though, I promise.


Hey, don't look now but your resentment is showing!

Yes, I assumed most of you would poo-poo the Dave Rueben Report and guess what.........you did!!! :shock:


I know, and the kicker is WE GAVE REASONS for why we don't like him too, isn't that crazy?!

Seriously, I'll read that article at some point in the morning when i'm not so delirious. You kept saying "read my article above" and I never saw any link or anything up there but more gibberish from me.


He tries to be as clear as he can, postmodern theory is dense. That's why I don't really have time for it. And, funnily enough, I'm a left-wing academic, what do you know. I'm not a marxist either, strange.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Boombats on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:06 pm

Riff Magnum wrote:Yes, I assumed most of you would poo-poo the Dave Rueben Report and guess what.........you did!!! :shock:

"I offered you a shit sandwich and you were repulsed- HAHA! So predictable!"
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby bishopdante on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:40 pm

warmowski wrote:Without endorsing nor rejecting anything this guy says -- I've only seen ten minutes of a video, never heard of him before -- I will say that this interviewer is clearly working hard to get his plain English totally wrong at a breathtaking clip.

phpBB [media]


Her tenacity in repeatedly expressing bad faith is kind of incredible. Again and again she fights not him, but instead fights the classic crude "naturalist" biases re: human behavior, biases that are favorite intuitions of dummies everywhere. Yes, oppose that shit, but at least notice when it's not the topic. Jeez.

-r


I wouldn't blame her for the weak-sauce interview and conceding far more ground than might be appropriate, these broadcast people are busy, and she was clearly poorly briefed by the production team. They would have done well to employ a researcher who was familiar with his subject area and also the heavy re-posting and bleating internet fandom of his 'alt-right' Internet followers.

Channel 4 asked him seriously weak questions, which were designed to put him on the back foot and scandalise devout equal rights advocates, by questioning his "sexism" - resulting from his disagreement / gripes with the bureaucratic implementation of gender equality as implemented by the Canadian government - and thus expose him as a sexist bigot. He is of course far more esoterically bonkers than garden "grab them by the pussy" sexism (in my opinion).

I'd have been inclined to draw him out by asking him questions, rather than engage in direct adversarial gambits:

- what is going on with the rise of Trump in the USA? does the phenomenon have parallels with prior political extremism, or is an internet-tweeting president a totally new phenomenon? How does that work psychologically as provocation to a mass of people with propensities for mental health conditions / a lack of societal cohesion? Is the election of Trump an appeal to hierarchy and a "strong and disagreeable leader" in the face of chaos? [Follow-up: do you think that Rex Tillerson has a higher socioeconomic status and more actual power within the business community as CEO of ExxonMobil, and therefore is dominant within the real white house group, rather than the media circus portrayal we are shown?].

- what would lead the american voters to believe that Trump was mentally fit or suitable for political office, from a psychological perspective? [Follow-up: do you think that *you* would be more or less suitable than Trump to run for office?]

- what clinical psychiatric effects are the mainstreaming of Internet and social media having upon society, and is there any precedent for that effect? [Follow-up: how has this had an effect upon your career and wellbeing specifically?]

- Does the psychiatry industry currently over-medicate? [follow-up: do you take medication, and if so for what]

- do you genuinely consider Disney's the Lion King to be a credible source for a university course? [Follow-up: what is your analysis of the notorious nazi propaganda films produced under contract by Disney. Second follow-up: have you considered including "the little mermaid", or "fantasia"... and do you suppose that mickey mouse has primordial features.]

- how much emphasis would you place on early childhood mother-baby bonding in influencing a person's character and propensity for mental health issues [follow-up: how was your relationship with your mother?]

- to what extent do you believe that society is susceptible to mass-delusions [follow-up: have you ever experienced delusions?]

- how is an undergraduate student Canadian "neo-Marxist" or "social justice warrior" different in psychological profile compared to A: the membership of Marx and Engels International Workingmens association, B: Lenin and his followers, C: Trotsky, D: Stalin E: Mao F: Gadaffi G: the Jong-il dynasty [follow-up: do you consider Marxist Canadian students to be authoritarian? second follow-up: are they being disagreeable or conformist?]

- do you think that formal measures implemented by institutuons after lengthy campaigns by activists to address entrenched unfairness and inequality regarding ethnicity, sex, sexuality, socioeconomic access, educational access, cultural/historical representation qualify as Orwellian doublespeak masking inaction, or are they legitimate campaigns?
Last edited by bishopdante on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:21 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Anthony Flack on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:41 pm

Riff Magnum wrote:
Anthony Flack wrote:Actually a ribbon mic is probably too noisy.


Dude, show some respect for the seriousness of this thread. I mean c'mon, porcupines and lobsters and birds and shit. This is heavy shit. :P


I'm just saying probably an LDC? Unless you had real slimy, noisy eyeballs.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby blackmarket on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:55 am

Riff Magnum wrote:Also, pretty sure a guy like JP, who's spent his whole life in liberal academia, has a pretty good handle on what postmodernism and neo-marxism is.


Peterson's repeated use of the phrase Cultural Marxism instantly discredits him. It shows that he does not understand the words he is using. Being an interesctional ideology, segregating Marxism, only to "culture", is an impossibility. You can't credibly talk about Marxist-anything without also addressing economic and class power. Cultural Marxism is not a thing that can exist.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby blackmarket on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:08 am

Riff Magnum wrote:Jesus, I gotta go point by point now? This is turning into a part time job. Well, Pretty much everything in that podcast revolves around shit we've touched on in this thread and honestly it's just plain interesting to listen to.


It's very telling where a person's interest and motivation lie. You will seek out bigots and Right-wing tripe like the Rubin Report. When it comes to educating yourself from the stories and experiences of the people they talk about, you're all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ SORRY, DON'T KNOW ANY.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Riff Magnum on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:24 am

OH dude you haven't heard the latest have you? I do know a trans individual. I played softball with him last fall. My bigotry and deep seeded hatred of anything out of the normal must've forced me to repress that knowledge.
I'm amazed at everyones ability to throw the baby out with the bath water. "The Rueben Report, tsk tsk tsk." Yeah, 3 hours of the Weinstein brothers. What a couple of hacks just wasting my time with their right wing propaganda.
Give me some "left wing" podcasts to listen to. Seriously. I need more shit anyways and overall I'm probably way less scared of new ideas than you are.
It really is NEW ideas that we need right? All our systems are crumbling. Nothing up to this point has been a total success, right? So both sides need to admit that this isn't working and it's not gonna give us the future we want. I assume some sort of cherry picking and choosing the best parts of old systems within a totally new framework might work. A totally new reward system? I dunno, I'm somehow skeptical and optimistic at the same time.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby blackmarket on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:42 am

Queery w/ Cameron Esposito
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/que ... 1268343859

Politically Reactive w/ W. Kamau Bell & Hari Kondabolu
https://rss.prod.firstlook.media/politi ... odcast.rss
Last edited by blackmarket on Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Riff Magnum on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:51 am

blackmarket wrote:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/queery-with-cameron-esposito/id1268343859



Cool.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:25 pm

Check out this sweet radio play:
http://www.comatonse.com/writings/2007_ ... lshow.html
Careful, it might all just play at the same time. You can right click and download the files, else it's on like Soulseek and whatnot, if you are cool and dl stuff onto your phone like me.

I love what I've heard of Jacobin Radio a whole bunch. Pretty left-wing, I'd say, haha.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Adam Sr on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:35 pm

If you like Jacobin, you might like Belabored, Intercepted, and Nostalgia Trap, too.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby jimmy spako on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:58 pm

Riff Magnum, you might also check out Sam Seder and Michael Brooks (the Majority Report and The Michael Brooks Show repectively, though Michael features prominently on the former too). I think they manage to expose what is deeply wrong with dudes like Peterson (and Ruben for that matter) while having a really differentiated take on the potential pitfalls of runaway identity politics on the left. Check them out, watch a current episode of The Majority Report on YouTube and see what you think.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby warmowski on Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:13 pm

I'm pretty sure that when laws or language customs emerge to protect persons who belong to a group routinely targeted for abuse, persons you've not yet met, let alone granted a personal context to as a group, it's just not a fair response to get all huffy about the appearance of the laws or customs.

When you've not even met the people, or don't even know you've met them, it tends to undercut the claim that the appearance of the laws or customs affects you at all. Why the drama? What does giving the benefit of the doubt cost you? What's wrong with simply asking "How do you prefer to be addressed?" when the day comes that your isolation from that group ends? Is that so tough to prepare for?

About drama, I'll answer my own question: in Illinois today, drama is stoked to gin up suburbanite votes for deeply shitty political candidates, such as this real piece of work running in the GOP gubernatorial primary.

phpBB [media]


In the above case, the drama is deployed for a specific purpose. It's disgusting and craven, but at least I understand why it's there: to reach for office. I'll never understand similar drama coming from someone for whom the issue presents zero loss.

On the positive side, a related observation: it's been my experience that persons who opposed gay marriage are by and large through the looking glass by now, and have noticed with a shrug that their worlds were not set ablaze after all. I expect it will become obvious -- even in the face of shit like the above clip -- that what Peterson and other drama queens hilariously call "cultural marxism" is just deeply normal stuff in the 21st century.

-r
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Riff Magnum on Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:13 pm

jimmy spako wrote:Riff Magnum, you might also check out Sam Seder and Michael Brooks (the Majority Report and The Michael Brooks Show repectively, though Michael features prominently on the former too). I think they manage to expose what is deeply wrong with dudes like Peterson (and Ruben for that matter) while having a really differentiated take on the potential pitfalls of runaway identity politics on the left. Check them out, watch a current episode of The Majority Report on YouTube and see what you think.


Yeah, i've listened to Sam Seder before. Kinda fell off my radar for some reason. i can only subscribe to so many podcasts then my phone gets full and I gotta go in and delete shit and inevitably stuff starts falling through the cracks. I need a better system, or phone.
Listened to about half of the new Jacobin today and enjoyed it. Definitely up my alley.
Queery...not so much but i'll continue to check in and see if there are new guests I'm interested in. She (esposito?) seems cool and sharp and funny, but I can see myself tiring of the "stories" quickly.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Gramsci on Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:15 pm

jimmy spako wrote:Riff Magnum, you might also check out Sam Seder and Michael Brooks (the Majority Report and The Michael Brooks Show repectively, though Michael features prominently on the former too). I think they manage to expose what is deeply wrong with dudes like Peterson (and Ruben for that matter) while having a really differentiated take on the potential pitfalls of runaway identity politics on the left. Check them out, watch a current episode of The Majority Report on YouTube and see what you think.


Seconded. Michael Brookes’ podcast is especially good. There’s some crossover with Chapo Trap House and Street Fight Radio. I wholely endorse the mighty This is Hell radio show - a podcast. Host Chuck has been at it for 20 years and is a fantastic interviewer.
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